# Interesting Day- Freakin Carpenters **URL:** \ **Category:** Electrical Inspections\ **Created:** [January 24, 2007, 2:53pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/interesting-day-freakin-carpenters/12132 "2007-01-24T14:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Greg\_Fretwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f1d935/32.png) [@Greg\_Fretwell](https://forum.nachi.org/u/Greg_Fretwell)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 2:22am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/interesting-day-freakin-carpenters/12132/21 "2007-01-25T02:22:47Z")
This is a mangement problem. If someone screws up another trade’s work on one of my wife’s houses they get a back charge and it will stick. There might even be a little penalty money in there. It costs a production builder somewhere between $300 and $500 a day for a house to sit. The same accountant who came up with that number writes the checks. Pretty soon people start being more careful. ---
**Author:** ![wdecker](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/wdecker/32/174659_2.png) [@wdecker](https://forum.nachi.org/u/wdecker)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 2:26am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/interesting-day-freakin-carpenters/12132/22 "2007-01-25T02:26:37Z")
> [@rbennett](#): > > Paul > > I got lucky this last summer while doing an HI – client said that one of the GFCI would not reset after having some new drywall installed. Took my telephone tone generator and hooked it up to the wall socket and followed the wire through the wall with the signal tracer until I found the drywall screw. > > Marked it with a post-a-note and took a picture of it. > > As you say, wonder how many others are out there that we don’t know about until the home burns down > > Ckt breakers do work > > rlb BRILLENT Paul! But then, this is NACHI! :mrgreen: ---
**Author:** ![wdecker](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/wdecker/32/174659_2.png) [@wdecker](https://forum.nachi.org/u/wdecker)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 2:28am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/interesting-day-freakin-carpenters/12132/23 "2007-01-25T02:28:41Z")
> [@pabernathy](#): > > Oh lord TOM…don’t get me started on those freakin Sheetrockers. They sure know HOW to tear up some conductors in a box without even a BLINK of an eye. Not to make to big a point. We don’t have this problem in the Chicago area. One word. EMT 🆒 Nuff Said! ---
**Author:** ![rbennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@rbennett](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rbennett)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 2:41am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/interesting-day-freakin-carpenters/12132/24 "2007-01-25T02:41:38Z")
Will EMT is good but at what cost?? Remember a nail or screw into a cable will show up some day and normally the home will not burn down Just a little scary rlb ---
**Author:** ![pabernathy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/pabernathy/32/178230_2.png) [@pabernathy](https://forum.nachi.org/u/pabernathy)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 3:58am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/interesting-day-freakin-carpenters/12132/25 "2007-01-25T03:58:08Z")
> [@wdecker](#): > > Not to make to big a point. > > We don’t have this problem in the Chicago area. > > One word. > > EMT 🆒 > > Nuff Said! But what I bet you have ALOT is “Objectionable Currents” and improperly bonded service conduits and so on. I would LOVE to get up to Illinois and snap some images of some services. As I started doing my G & B seminars…I found out HOW bad it is getting on the many systems. it is actually starting to frighten me with what i am seeing in regards to conduit systems in the past few days. ---
**Author:** ![jbushart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@jbushart](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jbushart)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 4:26am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/interesting-day-freakin-carpenters/12132/26 "2007-01-25T04:26:08Z")
Gosh…I read the title of this thread and thought it would involve conversation on 70’s singing groups with eating disorders. (sigh) Oh, well. Bon apetite… ---
**Author:** ![wdecker](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/wdecker/32/174659_2.png) [@wdecker](https://forum.nachi.org/u/wdecker)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 4:26am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/interesting-day-freakin-carpenters/12132/27 "2007-01-25T04:26:55Z")
> [@pabernathy](#): > > But what I bet you have ALOT is “Objectionable Currents” and improperly bonded service conduits and so on. I would LOVE to get up to Illinois and snap some images of some services. > > As I started doing my G & B seminars…I found out HOW bad it is getting on the many systems. it is actually starting to frighten me with what i am seeing in regards to conduit systems in the past few days. Point taken, and touche’, Paul. When you come up here, for your education class, come up a day early. I will show you all the issues areound here. Again, we have to remember that NACHI is nationwide. Many different AHJs, with many different reasons for different standards. This is not a ‘one size fits all’ situation. Double Dog Dare Ya, guy. :mrgreen: ---
**Author:** ![pabernathy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/pabernathy/32/178230_2.png) [@pabernathy](https://forum.nachi.org/u/pabernathy)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 6:01am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/interesting-day-freakin-carpenters/12132/28 "2007-01-25T06:01:14Z")
Will, I would simply LOVE it…bad news is I think TOM has me running off somewhere else the very next day and plans all my flights so chances are I would not make it up a day early. Their is always a good side and a bad side to different electrical systems, I find that while the advantage of EMT and so on helps to protect the wire, it happens to increase the potential for other issues in the complexity of understanding grounding and bonding which I believe is the MOST important part of the NEC as I have started doing these G & B seminars and learning more and more…I simply CAN’T settle my mind now as my knowledge is expanding so much…and 2002 NEC made it better, 2005 makes it even more better and from what i hear 2008 will clear UP many of the myths in how the concepts are applied. What I need to do is possibly get up your way for a chapter meeting which i will plan the flights and so on and we can take a little tour of your area with my cam in tow…I am finding SO many violations with Conduit in the past week it is simply amazing. ---
**Author:** ![cyezza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@cyezza](https://forum.nachi.org/u/cyezza)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 11:10am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/interesting-day-freakin-carpenters/12132/29 "2007-01-25T11:10:35Z")
> [@mcyr](#): > > Being a Carpenter by trade, I guess a comment is proper. > > The problem with today is that a lot of the finish carpentry is sub-contracted out. There was a time when a carpenter did the foundation and utilized the lumber used to do the form work an re-use it to frame the house and then do the finish work on the inside. That is when everyone used finish nails and one was carefull to assemble properly. > > In todays world, the finish is sub-contracted most times and they come in with their high powered air nailer’s. > > Having skipped the steps previously mentioned, they proceed to nail crown moldings and bed moldings and what not using the longest nail they have, to make sure that it is adequately fastened. > Since they have never seen the rough wiring installation nor the plumbing rough-in, do you think they care less.? > > While fastening a piece of 3/4" stock, you will notice that they are using 2 1/2" nails. The longest they got. Then when they get to thinner materials, do you think they will change nails, no. Voila, nail in wire. Or, pipe. > > Makes one wonder why the protector plates came into the picture. Now we know. Even with the minimum distance of 1 & 1/4" from face of stud is no longer adequate. > > Second: > > The infamous roto-zip. Ahhhh, wonder tool. > If the sheetrockers would have enough brain power to figure out that the bit only needs to stick out of the tool 3/4", it would help. > No, they have the whole thing going around an electrical box and shred whatever is inside. Each sheet they put up is money and that is all they care about. > Makes you wonder why we went to 4" deep nail on boxes. With sheet rockers, that is not enough when they are full of conductors. > If the conductors have survived the Roto-Zip, then there is the taper that will fill the box in with joint compound and the Electrician can’t tell which wire is black anymore. > Then there is the painter with his famous and glorious spray gun. God love the Electrician if he expects to know what color his conductors are. ha. ha. > > God bless the poor Electrician when the circuit trips. But, I will know why. > > I found a screw one time that was shorting out a copper lined room for an MRI unit, in a hospital I built, and that took a couple of hours. I know how it feels. > > To my Electrical and Plumbing friends, stay in the middle of the wall and use as many protector plates as possible and hope for the best. > > Good Luck. > > Marcel 🙂 🙂 😉 > > \\\ Nice post Marcel, Some Carpenters care about their work, Me being one of them. ---
**Author:** ![pabernathy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/pabernathy/32/178230_2.png) [@pabernathy](https://forum.nachi.org/u/pabernathy)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 2:40pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/interesting-day-freakin-carpenters/12132/30 "2007-01-25T14:40:49Z")
and CHUCK as a Electrician in the field working I THANK YOU for the pride in your work. Sad to say with cheap labor and so on it is not always the case as I witnessed day before yesterday. I am SO thankful the owner wanted to MOVE the recess lights or otherwise it would have been a total mess on the final because we simply would have been hard pressed to find this problem…and possibly before it was too late and this is a 2 million dollar home. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Fretwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f1d935/32.png) [@Greg\_Fretwell](https://forum.nachi.org/u/Greg_Fretwell)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/interesting-day-freakin-carpenters/12132/31 "2007-01-25T16:47:27Z")
Will, how does EMT keep the rocker from roto-zipping the conductors in the box? BTW EMT will not stop a determined person with a carbide tipped tool, nor will it stop a TEK screw. I have found TEK screws in raceways in steel framed buildings. ---
**Author:** ![tdietrich1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/tdietrich1/32/1561_2.png) [@tdietrich1](https://forum.nachi.org/u/tdietrich1)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 6:17pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/interesting-day-freakin-carpenters/12132/32 "2007-01-25T18:17:42Z")
> [@Greg Fretwell](#): > > Will, how does EMT keep the rocker from roto-zipping the conductors in the box? No conductors in the box. 🙂 Or to have fun with the sheetrocker, blank them all off. tom ---
**Author:** ![pdoane](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/pdoane/32/909_2.png) [@pdoane](https://forum.nachi.org/u/pdoane)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 7:04pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/interesting-day-freakin-carpenters/12132/33 "2007-01-25T19:04:37Z")
> [@tdietrich1](#): > > My arch-nemesis is sheet rockers. They use a 3" rotozip blades to cut holes for outlet boxes, while the rock is in place. > > tom Yeah,… saves them from measuring to locate the cut out. lol ---
**Author:** ![pabernathy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/pabernathy/32/178230_2.png) [@pabernathy](https://forum.nachi.org/u/pabernathy)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 8:27pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/interesting-day-freakin-carpenters/12132/34 "2007-01-25T20:27:59Z")
Come to think about it I did see a situation one time in a municple inspection I was doing where a TapCon screw was driven into the main service riser and well lucky enough it had not contacted anything…YET anyway. ---
**Author:** ![cyezza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@cyezza](https://forum.nachi.org/u/cyezza)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 11:51pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/interesting-day-freakin-carpenters/12132/35 "2007-01-25T23:51:32Z")
> [@pabernathy](#): > > and CHUCK as a Electrician in the field working I THANK YOU for the pride in your work. Sad to say with cheap labor and so on it is not always the case as I witnessed day before yesterday. > > I am SO thankful the owner wanted to MOVE the recess lights or otherwise it would have been a total mess on the final because we simply would have been hard pressed to find this problem…and possibly before it was too late and this is a 2 million dollar home. This post was eating at me all day Paul. I value your knowledge and expertise. I work with an Electrician on a regular basis and he has many jobs where the subs just tear up his work. I did an addition years ago where the electrican ripped into me about my crew screwing through a wire. Before any diagnosis of the problem, he wanted to rip half the finished walls out. Me being the diplomatic carpenter that I am, I told him to check his work 1st. We found that he had a loose wire. So sometimes it isn’t always the carpenter. ---
**Author:** ![pabernathy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/pabernathy/32/178230_2.png) [@pabernathy](https://forum.nachi.org/u/pabernathy)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 5:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/interesting-day-freakin-carpenters/12132/36 "2007-01-26T05:00:13Z")
lol…but you have to understand my statement originally…My work was done well before they added these blocks and you also need to know how ANAL I about or electrical projects. It is one of those things where…you just have to PRAY this is the only incident and it was DEVINE FATE that the client wanted to move the recess and it was found…and crossing the fingers never hurts. This is the problem more so in homes that get the home owner who is VERY involved and never have their minds made up from day one, they added these blocks 2 months after rough in inspection was done and who knows what else they added…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cyezza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@cyezza](https://forum.nachi.org/u/cyezza)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 8:50am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/interesting-day-freakin-carpenters/12132/37 "2007-01-26T08:50:59Z")
I know Paul, I can understand your frustration. Been throught hat many times. You’ll find out soon, Good luck with that one [Previous page](https://forum.nachi.org/t/interesting-day-freakin-carpenters/12132.md?page=1)