Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
Originally Posted By: bbadger
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Cool graphic Joe.
Are you asking if a pull chain type lighting outlet is OK for an attic?
If that is the question my answer is yes.
Bob
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Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Bob: We agree!
Look here for some interesting discussion on the ICC board, most people there are AHJ's, why there are even some who are combination inspectors too, who are learning the ropes concerning the NEC and IRC.
http://www.iccsafe.org/ubb/Forum11/HTML/000583.html
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Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
Originally Posted By: bbadger
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I checked it out Joe and saw some familiar names.
I will stick with NEC forums at least than I know what code to go by.
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Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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| Quote: |
| Residential single family home. A set of pull down stairs was installed to an attic. A water heater was installed in the attic. I installed a porcelain pull chain lampholder. The inspector wants a switch rather than the pull chain.
I think he's wrong. I can't find any NEC reference that says I need a separate snap switch. Who's right? |
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Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
Originally Posted By: bbadger
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Ahh, I see
| Quote: |
| I can't find any NEC reference that says I need a separate snap switch. |
Then that is a slam dunk
He won't find a reference that says he needs a snap switch, he can find a reference that says a lighting outlet with an integral switch is permitted.
2002 NEC 210.70(A)(3)
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Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
Originally Posted By: dbowers
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- APPLIANCE ACCESS
M1305.1.3.1 Electrical Requirements
A lighting fixture controlled by a switch located at the required passageway opening and a receptacle outlet shall be provided at or near the appliance location in accordance with Chapter 38.
(2) Section E3803 - LIGHTING OUTLETS
E3803.4 Storage or Equipment Spaces
In attics, under-floor spaces, utility rooms and basements, at least one lighting outlet shall be installed where those spaces are used for storage or contain equipment requiring servicing. Such lighting outlet shall be controlled by a wall switch or shall have an integral switch. At least one point of control shall be at the usual point of entry to these spaces. The lighting outlet shall be at or near the equipment requiring servicing.
Short & simple. If there is equipment in the under-floor space (crawlspace) or attic requiring servicing it needs a light. The light can have an integral switch (pull chain) BUT the control (turn-on) for the light should be at the opening to the space - that kinda rules out the pull-chain UNLESS the light is right by the access opening?????
See why we say we don't do code inspections.
Originally Posted By: roconnor
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As Dan noted there are some differences between the NEC and IRC, such as the required switch controlled fixture for mechanical equipment.
Another example is the NEC (and IRC summary of that) only requires a light switch at the top and bottom of stairs with 6 or more risers. But the general IRC provisions under R303.4 requires access to stair light switches without traversing any steps ... which basically requires a switch at the top and bottom of stairs with anything more that a few risers.
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Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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how many AHJs are actually using the IRC?
Florida in NECland
Originally Posted By: roconnor
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The IRC is becoming very common … 44 States use the IRC (and other ICC model codes)
http://www.iccsafe.org/government/adoption.html
FL is one of the few states that do not use the IRC, and still has their own state written building code ... although they do use a few ICC model codes.
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Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: jpeck
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Dan has the correct answer.
Maybe, IF ... It is not a slam dunk Yes or No.
IF the pull chain lighting outlet is NOT at the point of entry, and many are not, then the pull chain does not meet the requirement that the point of control be at the point of entry.
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Jerry Peck
South Florida
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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Are they usiing the IRC “electrical” code or the NEC?
I understand the building codes are leaning toward the IRC
Originally Posted By: bbadger
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| jpeck wrote: |
| Dan has the correct answer. |
No, not for the question asked.
If you read the question the poster is asking for the NEC reference.
Forget the other codes for this particular question. 
I am sure Dan is correct if the poster asked for other code references.
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Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
Originally Posted By: jpeck
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| bbadger wrote: | ||
No, not for the question asked. If you read the question the poster is asking for the NEC reference. Forget the other codes for this particular question.  I am sure Dan is correct if the poster asked for other code references. |
Bob,
THIS is Dan's answer, where he reduced it down to the ...
| dbowers wrote: |
| Short & simple. If there is equipment in the under-floor space (crawlspace) or attic requiring servicing it needs a light. The light can have an integral switch (pull chain) BUT the control (turn-on) for the light should be at the opening to the space - that kinda rules out the pull-chain UNLESS the light is right by the access opening????? |
THAT IS what the NEC says. Agree?
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Jerry Peck
South Florida
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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| jpeck wrote: |
| Dan has the correct answer.
Maybe, IF ... It is not a slam dunk Yes or No. IF the pull chain lighting outlet is NOT at the point of entry, and many are not, then the pull chain does not meet the requirement that the point of control be at the point of entry. |
It sort of depends on how long the chain is doesn't it?
Originally Posted By: jpeck
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| Greg Fretwell wrote: | ||
It sort of depends on how long the chain is doesn't it? |
Not really, gravity hangs them straight down. Or are you referring to how high the light can be?
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Jerry Peck
South Florida
Originally Posted By: lfranklin
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What if the chain was ran vertical, in a matter that it would stay in place (say 10 to 20 ft)
Originally Posted By: roconnor
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| Greg Fretwell wrote: |
| Are they usiing the IRC "electrical" code or the NEC?
I understand the building codes are leaning toward the IRC |
The IRC electrical sections are really a very handy summary of the NEC provisions that relate only to residential construction. I understand it's very similar to the recently re-introduced NFPA 70A "Electrical Code for One- and Two-Family Dwellings and Mobile Homes" ... CLICK HERE
Those under the IRC just need to be aware that there are a handful of more restrictive provisions ... like the light and switches for equipment and stairs. I recall a discussion on that at Mike Holts board.
--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: jpeck
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| lfranklin wrote: |
| What if the chain was ran vertical, in a matter that it would stay in place (say 10 to 20 ft) |
Larry,
You mean horizontally? (Yeah, it's late.)
That would not be how it was intended. That would really make it a rinky-dink installation, something that Billy-Bob-Joe homeowner would do.
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Jerry Peck
South Florida
Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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| jpeck wrote: | ||
Larry, You mean horizontally? (Yeah, it's late.) That would not be how it was intended. That would really make it a rinky-dink installation, something that Billy-Bob-Joe homeowner would do. |
Agreed, but it's "Bubba-Bobba-Joebba and -Jerryboy!
NEC:
| Quote: |
| Storage or Equipment Spaces.
For attics, underfloor spaces, utility rooms, and basements, at least one lighting outlet containing a switch or controlled by a wall switch shall be installed where these spaces are used for storage or contain equipment requiring servicing. At least one point of control shall be at the usual point of entry to these spaces. The lighting outlet shall be provided at or near the equipment requiring servicing. |
--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm