And this is the reason why we need to eliminate the lobby groups in our state as well as our federal governments. With all the hard work that certain HI’s did to try and stop the HI bill in Kansas was doomed from the get go because of the Lobby effort from KAR that Barnes and KAREI had sold their souls to…
Wanta have a REAL eye opener. For ANYBODY that belongs to ANGIES LIST or can get this months magazine of theirs - Take a good look.
They did a SPECIAL on LICENSING of CONTRACTORS.
NEAR the back of the magazine there is a USA map showing states with AND without BOTH state, local or other licensing. There are 3 STATES that have ALMOST nothing at state, local or OTHERWISE.
GUESS which 2 MIDWEST states are part of the 3 states WITH zip-squat?
ALSO they used several examples of BAD contractors ripping off people (1 here in Kansas City area), AND they included 1 example of a BAD home inspector (look at his business card to see which Assoc. he was with).
After reading this JUMP back on this Board and give us FEEDBACK.
I respectfully disagree, Patrick.
Too little was done too late by too few.
The Kansas law is recognized by many, nationally, as the worst law for consumers and inspectors in the United States. Even after the Governor signed it in to law…it was so bad and so poorly written that the Atty Gen had to send it back and, after another round in the Kansas Congress, it still came back flawed.
If there was ever a piece of legislative garbage destined for the trash heap, it was the Kansas Bill.
It didn’t happen because too many Kansas inspectors feared pissing off their realtor pals while the KAR was pissing on them.
Jim B -
You’re part right / there were a WHOLE lot of inspectors that did NOTHING but complain on web sites BUT could never take time off AND loose an inspection to go to a hearing before the legislators.
BUT - Pat Carter is VERY right, quite a few of US gave up a WHOLE lot of time writing to legislators; calling legislators and COMMITTEE members OR visiting legislators OR COMMITTEE members. Like Pat said - AS you and others KNOW, the REALTORS put a BUTT load of $$$$$ and VOTES into making this go through.
Those few who stepped out of their comfort zones and took a stand did a heck of a job. The silence and absence of those who objected on the message boards but hid under their beds when it counted drowned them out.
Now that many of them are out of business and/or struggling to put a tank of gas in the car…it’s hard to feel sorry for them. I’m sure that many of them would do differently, knowing what they know today, if they had a second chance.
I have been doing inspections for 8 years, approaching 7 figures in income, and had to recently sell my truck, because I can no longer afford the payment. My business is so bad, that I am looking for work elsewhere. I am only one of two CMI’s in the state of Kansas, and since recieving the honor, my business fell flat. Agents do not want anything to do with any inspector that has experience; we will simply kill their deal. Agents will do anything currently to get a sale.
Lawmakers and the Attorney General of Kansas, Steve Six, should be investigating this whole situation. Understand, that even the board does not know which laws to go by. HB 2260 from 2008 AND HB 2315 from 2009 are both still in play, because SB 329 from 2009 has yet to be voted on. Anyone who pays and joins this so called “KHIRB” will bite their own foot when the laws change, pass, or even fall by the wayside. I encourage anyone in Kansas to NOT SIGN ANYTHING that this board puts out. It may relinquish your rights.
Agents and contractors are all currently performing inspection “checks” for free. Just listen to local commericals. Several roofing companies perform free roof inspections. Several foundation companies will do foundation “checks” for nothing. AND ALL ARE NOT LICENSED, REGISTERED, OR CERTIFIED TO PERFORM ANY WORK ON ANY HOME. They go in, do the checks for the repairs, needed or not, and the sellers and buyers foot the bill. I wonder how many fees, kick-backs, and referral fees are changing hands in RE offices in KC and in Kansas at this very moment.
You are missing something:
How bad of a licensing law would you have gotten if no letters, calls, or visits to legislators would have taken place by some HIs?
In all do respect, I think you Kansas boys just gave up too soon.
I think Gary has the right idea. If the law is severely flawed like it is then it cannot be enforced.
TOTALLY AGREE, Jim.
Now, the weather report from hell. This just in, morning temp will be 23 degrees below zero.
Still, I totally agree with Jim. Hold the builder’s feet to the fire over their work. Make them accountable.
Kansas lawmakers have given complete control to the KHIRB. They have the full right to set any rules, regulations, or educational requirements that they want. Sure, there are some limitations due to the Laws (which ones are yet to be determined), however as I may need to register, or license with this “board”, I would be working for them, not the state, since the laws give the board the power to set all of these rules and regs. The board members are mostly ASHI. See HB 2260 and HB 2315. I hope they get it straigtened out by January 1, 2010.
I disagree. I don’t think that the law gives the board much power at all and all of the power that it has assumed on its own has yet to be tested. If they catch me doing an inspection without my Kansas license and try to make an issue of it…the tests will take place.
I agree with Bushart.
Sec. 4 KSA 2008 Sup. 58-4504 is hereby amended to read as follows: 58-4504. The board will have the following duties and powers…(g) “adapt all rules and regulations which are necessary to carry out the provisions of this act”.
From HB 2260, 2009. An Attorney’s income for years.
“adapt all rules and regulations which are necessary to carry out the provisions of this act”.
…and nothing more. Meaning…they cannot adapt or carry out any rules that are not empowered by some provision of the act.
“to make all necessary investigations into the qualifications of OR allegations of misconduct against an applicant AND registrant. In connection with ANY investigation by the board OR it’s duly authorized agents OR employees shall at all reasonable times have access to AND the right to examine and copy any document, report, record, or other physical evidence of ANY registered home inspector being investigated OR any document, report, record, or any other evidence maintained by and in the possession of any registered home inspector…”
Would you like these people come knockin’ at your door and demand and copy any document, report, record, etc. in your home?
That is a big part of it.
The fifth amendment rights of an individual do not disappear because of the ASHI-led Kansas board.
Let them go to a court and explain to a judge why I am compelled to give them copies of reports that they want to use to issue me a fine. Let’s see how fast they go flying out of the building and onto the street.
This is just a small part of how this law deserves to be ignored.
It is not only the right thing to do…but, IMO, it is the only ethical option that any ethical home inspector has.
It seems to me I remember something in the rules or regs that if memory seves me correctly / Gives the Board power to pull your license or ??? if you FAILEd to to something they dmanded.
Now this is just speculation BUT if the CIA came knocking at your door and wanted records of past CLIENTS - you would politely tell them to get a Court Order AND then shut the door on them till they produced.
BUT what if the KHIRB had the power to yank your license WHILE you’re waiting to challenge this in Court. WHO is paying your house, car or insurance payments while this is going on???
EVEN if you’re right YOU could be out of BUSINESS or starving!!
This body should be universally ignored, IMO. They have no authority over anyone who is not registered. If I am ever questioned about not having a license, I will simply explain how I refused to forfeit my rights under the fifth amendment of the U.S. Constitution in order to register.
You can, if you wish, voluntarily forfeit your rights. I choose not to.
I would like to address Michael Larsons points as I see them. First, good points but there are considerations.
#1, let free market decide. Normally this is a valid approach. Free market after all is the driving force to keeping costs in line with the market. In this case however it isn’t as effective as you would think. The major reason for this is the fact that most people do not buy new homes. The majority of Americans purchase pre-owned homes. It is a no brainer to understand just how much more difficult a retro-fit is in terms of cost. A homebuyer is most often presented with a home that will have several repairs needed and the “sprinkler” system will be seen as a luxary not a necessity. It is for this reason that the market will not serve homebuyers when it comes to adoption and enforcement of good building practices.
#2, you made a point that smoke alarms are there to save a life, and sprinklers are there to save property. This may have been true 20 years ago but is no longer true. The truth is that due to manufacturing technique changes over the years for just about everything that goes into a home, a residential fire will now reach flashover in approximately 3 minutes after the initiation of a fire. Compare this to 17 minutes for that same fire to reach flashover 20 years ago. Now, more than ever, sprinkler systems are installed to protect lives…and property. When the 3 minute clock starts counting, subtract time for smoke to reach alarm, time to realize what is happening, subtract time to realize just how serious it is, subtract time to find fire and try to put it out, subtract time to find you children and get them out of the house (insert decision time to determine which child gets attended to first), subtract time to see through smoke and find exit…well I think you can see where I am heading; three minutes is not a lot of time.
Sprinklers save lives; period. If it takes the adoption of a code to make this happen, this is a good thing. We make no qualms when it comes to protecting commercial property, why do we balk on protecting our families?
For anybody that doesn’t know him, Mike is the current President of KARCI (Kansas Association of Residential & Commercial Inspectors) and is out of Junction City, Kansas.
He has been a very stout fighter against the unneeded and unwanted HI Bill that KAR pushed on us. He also ran for the Kansas Legislature 2 yrs ago.
Mr. Greenwault, thank you for your reply and you have provided some interesting information.
There really is no end to proposals that would save lives in the home.
We could mandate only fireproof materials be used in home construction.
We could mandate fire separation walls throughout and automatic door closers for each door.
We could mandate fire safety training for all occupants.
We could mandate that all furnishings are built with non flammable materials.
We could mandate that no sources of ignition be present in a home…
I would rather the insurance market provide incentives to the public through steep discounts of home owners insurance for various protection systems included in a home than for another government regulation that adds significantly to the cost of owning and mantaining a home.