LEGAL: Ask NACHI's Attorney Joe Ferry, Dedicated Thread.

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61

Originally Posted By: jbushart
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


gromicko wrote:
I think a lot of the recent problems with some of these NY schools is the failure by some at NACHI to understand a simple truth: That being that... one can claim that he complies with all regulations when doing something currently unregulated.

In other words... If I live in a town that has no current regulation regarding the pruning of pink fig trees... the statement "I am in compliance with all regulations regarding the pruning of pink fig trees" is a true statement, even if the town has future plans to regulate the pruning of pink fig trees.

One cannot be out of compliance with a regulation that doesn't currently exist.


In the case of New York, there is legislation that has been passed and signed into law. The law states that there will be a requirement for 100 hours of training AND forty hours of home inspecting provided by the school.

A school that says that it meets these requirements and does not have 40 hours of home inspecting in it cirriculum would be prudent not to advertise that its graduates will fulfill these requirements, IMO.

The Secretary of State's office presently states that it has yet to approve any school or cirriculum as being in accordance with this law.

--
Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

www.monachi.org
62

Originally Posted By: cmccann
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Yes Nick,


That is true, but without all the BS we can help each other out to not spend hard earned money for no reason.

I also believe in "Don't pretend to be something you not".

Just plain old school. Firm hand shake, where has it gone?

--
NACHI MAB!

63

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


I don’t disagree.

–
Nick Gromicko


Founder


dues=79cents/day.


I much prefer email to private messages.

64

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


.

–
Nick Gromicko


Founder


dues=79cents/day.


I much prefer email to private messages.

65

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


If my summary of Joe’s position is correct… I don’t disagree with him either.

–
Nick Gromicko


Founder


dues=79cents/day.


I much prefer email to private messages.

66

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Having said that… the use of the NACHI Approved Continuing Education Seal is a TOTALLY SEPARATE issue in that a course that is NOT approved (and for that matter… will never be approved) by a state agency for continuing education purposes to fulfill licensing requirements… could (and often does) earn continuing education approval at NACHI to fulfill membership requirements… and so is ENTITLED to Seal usage.

–
Nick Gromicko


Founder


dues=79cents/day.


I much prefer email to private messages.

67

Originally Posted By: jbushart
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Mr. Ferry,


There are some who feel that the NJ HI Advisory Board has exceeded its authority in its interpretation and application of the existing home inspection law and is applying this law in such a manner that is harmful to some of our members.

New Jersey inspectors are reluctant to step up and take action on their own in fear of retaliation by the board. I am interested in compiling information and filing a complaint and I am wondering if you could direct me to the appropriate party in the NJ Legislature that would have the authority to act upon it - other than the advisory board, of course.

--
Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

www.monachi.org

68

Originally Posted By: rwand1
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Hey James


Your comments have a familiar ring to them. Are you sure you are not a closeted Canadian? ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif) ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif) ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif) ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)

--
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (OAHI)
http://www.raymondwand.ca

69

Originally Posted By: bkelly2
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


bkelly2 wrote:
Joe a couple of questions.

1. Adhesion, in my contract the client has 5 days from the receipt of the report to cancel the contract and nullify the report. Any thoughts?

2. Asset Protection, I have E&O and an LLC. Thoughts on both.

Thank You

BK


Hmmmm

--
"I used to be disgusted, Now I try to Be amused"-Elvis Costello
70

Originally Posted By: jferry
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Joe a couple of questions.


1. Adhesion, in my contract the client has 5 days from the receipt of the report to cancel the contract and nullify the report. Any thoughts?

2. Asset Protection, I have E&O and an LLC. Thoughts on both.

Thank You

BK

Brian -

Your five day recission provision puzzles me from a business standpoint. After the guy has your report, what's the point of his not cancelling it. He has your report and he doesn't have to pay you! It doesn't get much better than that for a financially strapped home buyer.

E & O protects you. People buy E & O for two reasons: to manage the potential exposure from a damages perspective and to have qualified legal counsel. Most suits against inspectors, like most professional liability suits, in general, result in defense verdicts. It's a Pyrrhic victory, however, if your legal costs are astronomical.

LLC also limits your liability to the amount of your investment in your company but only if you actually operate as an LLC. That is, you have your board meetings and conduct the LLC as a corporation. Consult your lawyer for how to accomplish this.

71

Originally Posted By: rcooke
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Joe most of us follow the SOP. http://www.nachi.org/sop.htm


Some feel it is OK to exceed the SOP .


Some considerable.


I feel we could be asking for trouble.


Example . In Court I get asked .


Mr Cooke you did exceed the SOP regarding how you inspected the Water system I wonder why you would not do the same regarding the electrical components.


Thanks for your time I do appreciate you doing this it is a considerable help to all NACHI Inspectors .


Thanks Nick

–
Roy Cooke Sr.


http://Royshomeinspection.com

72

Originally Posted By: jferry
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Joe most of us follow the SOP.


Some feel it is OK to exceed the SOP .


Some considerable.


I feel we could be asking for trouble.


Example . In Court I get asked .


Mr Cooke you did exceed the SOP regarding how you inspected the Water system I wonder why you would not do the same regarding the electrical components.


Thanks for your time I do appreciate you doing this it is a considerable help to all NACHI Inspectors .


Thanks Nick




Roy -

There's a reason that "No good deed goes unpunished" is a well-known lament and you cite a pretty good example.

From a marketing standpoint, it makes sense to go the extra mile - though my personal experience has been that clients are an extremely ungrateful crowd [Nick excepted, of course - and I'm not kidding!]

The scenario is analogous to the 'good Samaritan' issue in law. Good Samaritans, under the common law, could be sued if their intervention on behalf of an injured person caused harm to that person. Because society wants good Samaritans to intervene, laws were promulgated to insulate such citizens from liability for mere negligence.

Here, inspectors may be trying to be figurative good Samaritans by expanding the scope of their inspection. In doing so, they may be expanding the scope of their liability in the manner that the cross-examining lawyer in your example is seeking to establish.

So, the answer is, if you expand the scope of your inspection beyond the SOP, you could be increasing your exposure to suit.

73

Originally Posted By: rcooke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Thanks for your reply .


In Canada we have run into difficulty with taking pictures in a home we are inspecting .


To the point I will not take any pictures unless I have the permission of the owner.


I see many inspectors taking pictures are they violating the privacy rights of the home owner if they take pictures with out permission.


Is verbal permission adequate .

–
Roy Cooke Sr.


http://Royshomeinspection.com

74

Originally Posted By: jferry
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


I’m not an expert on Canadian law. Certainly you can take pictures with permission. If you’re taking pictures of defects, I don’t see what the legitimate objection could be or under what theory an objection could be mounted pursuant to an inspection.

75

Originally Posted By: rwand1
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


I do not take pictures for inclusion in report. Occassionally I may include a photo in my report if client is not in attendance. I also occassionally take pictures for personal use to review later in preparation of my report. If photos are taken and used they should be relevent to the matter being reported.


I have been in homes where puchaser started taking photos of living room, den, dinning room... and the vendor freaked out because he didn't want his expensive art work being photographed, let alone anything else.

Just my experience.

Cheers,

--
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (OAHI)
http://www.raymondwand.ca

76

Originally Posted By: bkelly2
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


jferry wrote:
Joe a couple of questions.

1. Adhesion, in my contract the client has 5 days from the receipt of the report to cancel the contract and nullify the report. Any thoughts?

2. Asset Protection, I have E&O and an LLC. Thoughts on both.

Thank You

BK

Brian -

Your five day recission provision puzzles me from a business standpoint. After the guy has your report, what's the point of his not cancelling it. He has your report and he doesn't have to pay you! It doesn't get much better than that for a financially strapped home buyer.

E & O protects you. People buy E & O for two reasons: to manage the potential exposure from a damages perspective and to have qualified legal counsel. Most suits against inspectors, like most professional liability suits, in general, result in defense verdicts. It's a Pyrrhic victory, however, if your legal costs are astronomical.

LLC also limits your liability to the amount of your investment in your company but only if you actually operate as an LLC. That is, you have your board meetings and conduct the LLC as a corporation. Consult your lawyer for how to accomplish this.


So back to adhesion does the 5 days help in the case of adhesion? And to answer you question 2 years and no takers, I also have to agree to refund the fee. I have heard others speak of the customer not having eouugh time to digest the contract, that is the reason for the 5 days.

As for the LLC we are Limited Liability Companies is AZ

--
"I used to be disgusted, Now I try to Be amused"-Elvis Costello
77

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


In every real estate sales agreement I’ve ever seen, including those used in Canada, the seller grants permission for the inspector to inspect via the home inspection rider where the seller grants the buyer permission to inspect using a home inspector. So you have permission (from the seller) to document what you observe using pen, paper, video, camera, your own memory, etc.


Furthermore, once a sales agreement is executed (an offer is made, accepted, and returned to the buyer) the buyer becomes an owner in equity and even though closing (or "escrow" as it is called in some areas) hasn't taken place yet, possess more rights than the seller. After an agreement is executed, a home inspector's client (the buyer) becomes an owner in equity and the seller becomes merely a caretaker of the asset until closing, where the seller turns over possession.

What I'm trying to say is that the average perception of many home inspectors that a home under agreement is still 100% the seller's home, is somewhat inaccurate.

--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

78

Originally Posted By: rcooke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Thanks NICK sounds good to me .

–
Roy Cooke Sr.


http://Royshomeinspection.com

79

Originally Posted By: jferry
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


So back to adhesion does the 5 days help in the case of adhesion? And to answer you question 2 years and no takers, I also have to agree to refund the fee. I have heard others speak of the customer not having eouugh time to digest the contract, that is the reason for the 5 days.


Roy -

Yes. It helps.

80

Originally Posted By: dcossar
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


icon_question.gif I have been reading the posts about the use of RHI in Ontario. I guess I’m a bit slow. Can it be used by anyone who wants to, or not?


Cheers
Doug