Lets get it on

[cbottger (Charley L. Bottger)]

This home was a mess was called for imaging inside this home that I showed the pics above with the flat roof. Walls were cinder/concrete block, mold was growing behind vinyl wall paper that had already been removed and the laminate flooring had been pulled up. Water had been seeping upward out of the laminate flooring. Client wanted to determine source of water. Concrete slab floor had one hairline crack approximately 6 to 8 feet from where the water was noticed on the floor.

Mold was growing upward from the baseboard and at the top of the wall where it joins the ceiling.

Clients had closed on this home two week prior to my call and had decided to do some remodeling and this is what they discovered. Had been a home inspection prior to closing not by me.

The topography of the landscape surrounding this corner of the structure has the possibility of water intrusion at the bottom course of blocks. No cracks visible. pooling of water is visible at this exterior corner.

My determination was water penetration from two sources as the roof covering was in like new condition prior to closing. My thinking was water from a past roof leak and water intrusion at the bottom course of block or at least at floor level possibly from the crack slab.

We have a very high water table this year due to record breaking rain fall.

[cbottger (Charley L. Bottger)]

More Pics same room in the corner

[prussell (Peter Russell, NH licence #57)]

Charlie, did you verify your findings with a moisture meter? and what was the level?

[jmckenna1 (John McKenna, CMI)]

The reflection of the sky is always cold and distorted. We feel heat as it
(energy from sun) absorbs into our skin. The atmosphere lets the energy
pass through it (for the most part) and so the actual temperature of the sky
is much colder than what we feel. The reflection compounds the distortion.

BTW… no matter what your settings are, the actual image that you see
will still be the same on your camera. Your numbers may change, but
not the image. As an inspector, we compare the anomalies in the image
more than worry about the numbers. Chew on that.

[cbottger (Charley L. Bottger)]

@prussell

Charlie, did you verify your findings with a moisture meter? and what was the level?

Yes Sir I did; owner had already dried as much water as they could absorb up and I still was reading 23%

[dvalley (David Valley, License #566 - CMI)]

First of all…Professional results come from qualified individuals with the right equipment. I highly recommend Infrared training before attempting a flat roof inspection. Thermal cameras are amazing tools but they must be utilized correctly if you want to uncover moisture damage in your roof structure.

Another important factor as to “why” flat roof IR inspections are better off being performed at night or early in the morning…

When there is sun glaring on the roof all day, flat roof areas (especially the roofs which contain ballast) will have a different thermographic color signature due to radiation of the stored energy from the daylight sunshine in the form of heat. This stored energy radiates as heat from these areas for a longer period of time. This stored temperarute will screw up your IR readings.

I personally would never attempt a roof inspection during the day, unless weather conditions warrant me to. I will schedule all my flat roof inspections after 5:00 PM. But you bet you’re as$, I’d be on-site earlier for safety reasons. I’d want to see how I’m going to gain access to the roof and I want to walk the roof during daylight so I’m know what I’m getting into during darkness.

[cbottger (Charley L. Bottger)]

@jmckenna1

The reflection of the sky is always cold and distorted. We feel heat as it
(energy from sun) absorbs into our skin. The atmosphere lets the energy
pass through it (for the most part) and so the actual temperature of the sky
is much colder than what we feel. The reflection compounds the distortion.

BTW… no matter what your settings are, the actual image that you see
will still be the same on your camera. Your numbers may change, but
not the image. As an inspector, we compare the anomalies in the image
more than worry about the numbers. Chew on that.

I would agree with that on moisture detection but not electrical.

[dvalley (David Valley, License #566 - CMI)]

@cbottger

I would agree with that on moisture detection but not electrical.

Charley,

Electrical breakers and the buss bars will absolutely reflect images.

[cbottger (Charley L. Bottger)]

@dvalley

Charley,

Electrical breakers and the buss bars will absolutely reflect images.

Very correct that is why we adjust for reflection because we are looking for the correct temp in the panels not just the image.

[dvalley (David Valley, License #566 - CMI)]

@cbottger

Very correct that is why we adjust for reflection because we are looking for the correct temp in the panels not just the image.

Exactomungo

[dandersen (David Andersen, TN HI# 40)]

Boy, it’s hard to keep up with this thread!
We may have created a monster here!

Please do not take offense of any short replies made. We can expound a little more as interest dictates.

all

I was surprised my self when the low temp showed up

Charlie, this is what this section on the board is all about (being surprised by what we find) and trying to understand why.
We can all learn by sharing…

The emissivity setting on camera (as John McKenna picked up on) doesn’t matter. In our application of the infrared camera, as home inspectors we do not need to know the exact temperature of anything. Comparisons or Delta temperature is what we’re concerned about.

I suppose monitoring a container of water would help but seems a bit extreme

Mr. Warner, this application may be a bit extreme, however the “normal window” is governed by readings that you achieve.
As home inspectors it is unlikely that we will ever do this much evaluation, but those that want to expand beyond should understand that there are circumstances that will affect your thermal scan and that there is a way to determine the best possible time to take your readings. Just because the thermal window occurs in the morning and the afternoon under most circumstances, it does not mean it will occur under all weather conditions. Someone may need to know the way to evaluate what the exact temperature differences between the roof and moisture levels.

The advantages of this board is that there are people out there that do nothing but roof evaluations and may can teach us some good stuff.

I suspect part of it is indeed reflection from the sky and space but your image indicates a temp range from -12 to 28. There’s some awfully cold objects up there on that roof. You don’t indicate ambient temp or the lowest temp of the night before. The low temp is probably due to the thermal capacitance of water and also due to latent heat of fusion. Also understand that air movement at 10MPH a surface will lose 50% of its actual temp. The slightest breeze will reduce surface temps.

Mr. Warner, I think we are reading into this a little too deeply, though you are raising some excellent points to consider. The temperature readings of the reflected sky would be even lower than you see in this scan if the camera had the capability of reading lower temperatures. I can almost guarantee that the lowest temperature is due to the reflection of the temperature of space at the time he took the picture. There was nothing on that roof 12° below zero Fahrenheit when he snapped the picture.

Dave, is that a reflection from the termination strip used on the carpeting?

Mr. Russell, actually the door is an exterior door between the house and an unconditioned attic space. The carpet strip would do the same thing, however in this case it is a full aluminum threshold.

Electrical breakers and the buss bars will absolutely reflect images.

Mr. Valley, I almost always pay attention to the insulation on the electrical wiring because it is close to the blackbody we are looking for. Basically what I’m saying is not to put your crosshairs and a temperature reading on the scan because an aluminum terminal connection is showing hotter than wire insulation.

In our application of this technology we should probably avoid things like aluminum terminal connectors. If you look at the emissivity tables posted on the Internet, aluminum has one of the widest ranges possible due to its physical condition which cannot be readily evaluated during our application. The distance between wire insulation in the connection is not significant enough to attempt a conversion at the terminal fixture.

[wwarner (William Warner)]

@dandersen

Boy, it’s hard to keep up with this thread!
We may have created a monster here!

Please do not take offense of any short replies made. We can expound a little more as interest dictates.

Mr. Warner, this application may be a bit extreme, however the “normal window” is governed by readings that you achieve.
As home inspectors it is unlikely that we will ever do this much evaluation, but those that want to expand beyond should understand that there are circumstances that will affect your thermal scan and that there is a way to determine the best possible time to take your readings. Just because the thermal window occurs in the morning and the afternoon under most circumstances, it does not mean it will occur under all weather conditions. Someone may need to know the way to evaluate what the exact temperature differences between the roof and moisture levels.

The advantages of this board is that there are people out there that do nothing but roof evaluations and may can teach us some good stuff.

Mr. Warner, I think we are reading into this a little too deeply, though you are raising some excellent points to consider. The temperature readings of the reflected sky would be even lower than you see in this scan if the camera had the capability of reading lower temperatures. I can almost guarantee that the lowest temperature is due to the reflection of the temperature of space at the time he took the picture. There was nothing on that roof 12° below zero Fahrenheit when he snapped the picture.

Pretty much what I was trying to say but you did it better!

Thanks!