Main breaker is at bottom of panel

My SqD only has the panel directory on the door and it is a removable card that can go back either way.

FOR THE RECORD…

Look at my comment… I never mentioned your name and I never even referred to you or directed my comments to you… as a matter of fact ***you ***never even entered into my mind.:roll:

HAVE A NICE DAY:p

John,
I have a few questions for you.

  1. How many circuits breakers do you see in the sub-panel on the left? {10}

  2. How many circuits breakers do you see in the sub-panel on the right? {10}

  • How many hand movements are required to shut off ALL circuit breakers before you have to install a “Main Circuit breaker”? {6-Hand movements}
  • Are “main Circuit breakers” required in *sub-*panels?Do you see a “Main Circuit breaker” in either *sub-*panel?
    How many 15-amp circuit breakers are there in each sub panel?

What were the wire sizes going into the breakers?

How many 20-amp circuit breakers are there in each sub-panel?
What were the wire sizes going into the breakers?

Plus…
I enlarged the photo as much as I could and I could not see any “anti corrosion Gel” on the ends of the main feeder wires.

Did you see any?

John,
I have a few questions for you.

  1. How many circuits breakers do you see in the sub-panel on the left? {10}

  2. How many circuits breakers do you see in the sub-panel on the right? {10}

  • How many hand movements are required to shut off ALL circuit breakers before you have to install a “Main Circuit breaker”? {6-Hand movements}
  • Are “main Circuit breakers” required in *sub-*panels?Do you see a “Main Circuit breaker” in either *sub-*panel?
    **It is not required in a sub panel unless you are in a second building.

**

Plus…
I enlarged the photo as much as I could and I could not see any “anti corrosion Gel” on the ends of the main feeder wires.

Did you see any?

** It is not required in the NEC**

BTW it does look like they used the goo

Look at the way in which the circuit breakers are connected across the two phases, and see the twin circuit breakers that seem to be improperly wired.

I also see signs of burning at a few of the neutral connections on the teminal bar, that is a real problem if the MWBC’s are connected to one phase!

Sorry both Frank and Joe T, I have attached better pics. I should clarify:These are condo panels in Canada, so not the same as a subpanel in a home, which would require a main shutoff. Yes there is a main breaker for every condo unit, but it is with the meters at the far end of the complex. Legal.
These Commander panels are a Westinghouse breed I think, I am certainly no expert. They are indeed bass-ackward breaker designs, in fact they are all mini-breakers in that panel and work that way, as pictured on the breaker, CSA approved. :stuck_out_tongue:
Finally, even if we sometimes see 14 Ga wire on a 20A baseboard heater circuit, that too is permitted now under the steady load rule. Thanks for keeping the info coming and I will try to be more specific as well as keeping eyes open.

John Kogel
www.allsafehome.ca

commbrkrs.jpg

comandrneuts.jpg

They say “240v” across the two terminals if I read the writing right.

The 2 minis in each breaker module are in phase, out of phase with the 2 mini breakers next to it. To get two 240 circuits, they employ this ingenious metal bridge. :cool: This panel had some of everything, including a scotch tape marker…

Westhsebrkrs.jpg

John,
Thank you for posting this interesting “thread”.

This electrical / technical section is one of the “things” that keeps NACHI so strong!

HI Greg!

Thank you for the information. Here is all that I could find in the;
2006 IRC. Chapter 36
E3606.3 Panelboard overcurrent protection.
Panelboards shall be protected on the supply side by not more than two main circuit breakers or two sets of fuses having a combined rating not greater than that of the panelboard.
Exception: Individual protection for a panelboard shall not be required if the panelboard feeder has overcurrent protection not greater than the rating of the panelboard.

Can you please list the Chapter, and section where you found your information?

Thanks… Frank :stuck_out_tongue:

“The supply side disconnect” can be in the upstream panel if this sub is in the same building.

The NEC is a permisive code. If there is no rule against it, it is legal.
Article 225 treats a sub entering a second building like a service (6 throw rule etc) but in the same building you are only protecting the feeder with the up stream overcurrent device. A disconnect per se, is not required. As your IRC citation points out in the exception, as long as the feeder protection adequately protects the sub no further protection is required