Originally Posted By: jgallant This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
A nine year old house I inspected today had the main panel in the crawl space (a tall crawl space, roughly 8 feet high), and the door to the crawl space had a keyed deadbolt that was locked when we arrived for the inspection. It seems to me that this is a safety hazard since the fire and rescue crews often want to turn the power off in the event of a fire, and this would stop them. Any thoughts?
Originally Posted By: gbeaumont This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hi Jim,
I think is not a well advised condition, but having had this discussion with many firemen the general consensus is that they will not even enter a burning or flooded building when there is any potential for the electric supply to be on, and to that extent will normaly pull the meter on the exterior.
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
gbeaumont wrote:
... with many firemen the general consensus is that they will not even enter a burning or flooded building when there is any potential for the electric supply to be on, and to that extent will normally pull the meter on the exterior.
Friends who are firefighters agree with Gerry that they will just pull the meters to shut down power. But also consider that part of the rules anticipate that a homeowner may need to shut down power to the building in an emergency (e.g. smoking wires that may spark a wall).
I think the key is that panel, and the ability to shut down power, must be readily accessible to a homeowner. If it's in a locked space it's really not "readily accessible". So I would write that up as a concern.
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
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I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: kmcmahon This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
As a fireman…you never touch a meter…you wait for the utility Co. However, with a locked cellar, and knowing location of disconnect, we’d just force entry and shut the main.
Our Safety is #1, so shutting the main would be dependant on how safe it is to get to the main.
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Folks there is nothing in the NEC that prohibits the service disconnect from being behind a locked door.
Quote:
230.70(A)(1) Readily Accessible Location. The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors.
Quote:
Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible). Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.
From the NEC handbook:
Quote:
The definition of readily accessible does not preclude the use of a locked door for service equipment or rooms containing service equipment, provided those for whom ready access is necessary have a key (or lock combination) available.
I am aware HIs are not quoting codes but IMO they should get to see the relevant ones for their own information. 
Now if you need a portable ladder to get in here that is a problem.
Originally Posted By: rcloyd This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jim:
There is another potential problem evident in the picture. Unless that paper facing on the insulation installed between the joists has a flamespread rating of 25 or less and a smoke developed rating of 450 or less when tested in accordance with ASTM E 84 it cannot be left exposed in the crawl space.
Most paper faced insulations have a warning printed right on the facing that warns you not to leave the facing exposed to the interior of the structure ( as it will burn rapidly).
If the insulation had been installed with the paper facing against the floor
deck or covered with a thermal barrier it would be ok.
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Bob Badger wrote:
Folks there is nothing in the NEC that prohibits the service disconnect from being behind a locked door.
Very true ... still rubs me the wrong way for that home, where the odds of that crawl space key not being found easily may be pretty good ... 
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Robert where are the disconnects located generally in your area?
Here the basement is the most common spot for dwelling units.
For commercial many times well inside so we do not burn up "window walls" with electric rooms.
I recently did a Seven Eleven Store with an outdoor service disconnect and we had to put a padlock of the service disconnect to keep crack heads from shutting off the store at night. 
Originally Posted By: Randy Flockton This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Just curious… were you required to drag a ladder out to access the crawlspace? If so, regardless of the lock, it’s not readily accessible! why anyone would allow overcurrent protection for general wiring to be in a crawl space is beyond me, coming from an electrician… what if a disabled person was there alone & needed to kill power in an emergency? Or just simply tripped a circuit & needs to reset it?
-Randy
-- "Prices subject to change with customers additude"
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Bob Badger wrote:
Here the basement is the most common spot for dwelling units.
Same thing here ... usually not locked (maybe thats whats rubbing me the wrong way).
I'm not really concerned about commercial buildings or FD access, as they have all the gear needed to get to the disconnects ... but around my neck of the woods they will usually pull the meters (they are really suppose to wait for the POCO, but sometimes there is a long response time). I'm really thinking about homeowner access to shut power down in the event of a problem, and a crawl space key may be buried ... 
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Mike. It’s possible that the point of entry is right behind the panel, but I can’t tell. Also, it’s hard to tell from the small pic, but it doesnt look like an MLO panel without a disconnect. I seem to see a main disconnect (MD) here:
Jim ... using "main panel" doesn't really describe the installation. Is that a "service panel" with the MD, or is it a "distribution panel" with the MD somewhere else? It's important because that also indicates where the service neutral-ground connection/bond goes ...
(P.S. Jerry P. didn't didn't jump on that "main panel" reference ... he must have missed that or he is getting mellow ... )
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
why anyone would allow overcurrent protection for general wiring to be in a crawl space is beyond me, coming from an electrician… what if a disabled person was there alone & needed to kill power in an emergency? Or just simply tripped a circuit & needs to reset it?