Originally Posted By: dandersen
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/D/DSC03543.JPG ]
http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/D/DSC03543.JPG ]
Originally Posted By: lewens
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I’d call it mold. Is that MDF? If it is it is made with paper byproducts and wood fibre. Great medium for mold. Add water and heat and voila!
–
Just my usual 12.5 cents
From The Great White North Eh?
NACHI-CAN
www.aciss-brant.com
www.certifiedadulttrainingservices.com/
Originally Posted By: whandley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Mold grows on everything. Check out the substrate growth materials listed in the NACHI educational posters:
http://www.nachi.org/documents/NACHIposters.pdf
Originally Posted By: tallen
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Call in a pro.!
Note the "possible" and advise a pro
evaluation and remediation contractor.
Or spray it with BLEACH . 
--
I have put the past behind me,
where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.
www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net
30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005
Originally Posted By: dandersen
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I had them rip it all out and leave an air space at the floor for a moisture break and ventilation.
Originally Posted By: hgordon
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
for high moisture indicating that there is (or not) active water intrusion at this location. Further evaluation by a Trade Professional in Indoor Air Quality testing is recommended prior to close of escrow."
–
Harvey Gordon
SE Florida NACHI Chapter - President
hgordon@fl.nachi.org
Originally Posted By: dandersen
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
It was in the garage, without a door installed. The design of the garage is to keep bad air (and fire) out.
Where would you suggests we test the air?
I reported all the stuff about mold.
It's up to him to just rip it out.
Originally Posted By: lkage
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| dandersen wrote: |
| I had them rip it all out and leave an air space at the floor for a moisture break and ventilation. |
At the mold inspection certification class we took at last year's convention the instructor really stressed not advising how to remediate the suspected mold for liability reasons.
Directing them to the EPA website was emphasized.
--
"I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him."
Galileo Galilei
Originally Posted By: whandley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hey David; That discoloration and or possible mold growth appears to be on a wood framed, drywall covered interior and or exterior wall system. An appropriate independent environmental consultant would take base line exterior air samples, interior base line air samples and air samples within the effected wall system. From those results and or cultures a specific protocol would be designed for remediation of the mold including, but not limited to the use of a negative air system preventing contamination of adjacent areas. I never suggest to anyone the opening of walls and or personal removal of mold. Leave that to the experts and or someone with far more E & O insurance than I.
Originally Posted By: dandersen
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| Quote: |
| but not limited to the use of a negative air system |
The house HAD a negative air system. Leaking HVAC ducts! 
| Quote: |
| I never suggest to anyone the opening of walls and or personal removal of mold. Leave that to the experts and or someone with far more E & O insurance than I. |
This is a new house.
The builder put it in and ripped it out. There is PT Wood framing under the SR. The moisture came from pressure washing the floor.
If I didn't TELL them to take it out, they would have just covered it up.
At least they got the petrie dish out of there!
| Quote: |
| An appropriate independent environmental consultant would take base line exterior air samples, interior base line air samples and air samples within the effected wall system. From those results and or cultures a specific protocol would be designed for remediation of the mold including, but not limited to the use of a negative air system preventing contamination of adjacent areas. |
This sounds like a big suggestion to me.
And this will tell me what? That there are mold spores floating around outdoors? Sounds like Radon Testing out by the pool!
I don't suggest anything either. I just point it out.
"There is a mold like substance at... , excessive moisture from... is the likely cause, investigate further." That's it.
Recommending removal of the damaged rock and baseboard is NOT telling them how to mediate Mold. It is telling them how to repair the damaged wall. We can't do that now, because there is mold present?
Your getting me confused.
| Quote: |
| Directing them to the EPA website was emphasized. |
This is a good idea.
I link to EPA on all these controversial subjects. They are better with the wording than I.
Originally Posted By: mcyr
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Dave; I was a little disappointed in the second post, and that is as far as I went prior to this post.
You had no authority to tell anyone to rip out what you called a problem.
The problem from this picture that is small and basically dose not tell everyone the whole picture, is a concrete floor with wood base and drywall.
The wood base is tight to the concrete and assumed that is was never primed at the edges, they have had water intrusion either by washing the floor or some leak.
In either case, the water infiltration and intrusions were permissive on this matter and the fact that bare wood is eminent at the bottom of the wood base, water based primer was probably used, moisture just found it's way up the wall like the picture shows.
Your call was in error, and you should have recommended a qualified Contractor to resolve the matter.
Reporting your concerns are enough at this point. You are not a building Inspector, that I know of.
I do not mean to be offensive in your report here, I am just trying to help guide anyone that might be in this same predicament.
Please don't take this offensively.
Hope this helps.
Marcel
Originally Posted By: dandersen
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| Quote: |
| Your call was in error, and you should have recommended a qualified Contractor to resolve the matter. |
What kind of a contractor are you referring?
The General Contractor was there and agreed that it had to be removed and did so before I left the site.
I have always understood that removal of molded building materials is required to get the the mold out.
The SR was not moisture resistant and in contact with the concrete. How can it not be removed?
Do you think it should have been left there?
Originally Posted By: whandley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Good Morning David; You seem to be a little argumentative and or confrontational with regard to the mold stuff. I think everyone is trying to assist you, by helping you understand that that one should always refer possible mold issues to an appropriate contractor specializing in environmental, mold, industrial hygiene and or mycology prior to close of escrow. Can you appreciate this scenario? Mold returns to the area you have advised the builder needs to be torn out. The homeowner calls an appropriate environmental consultant who determines that additional remediation should have and now needs to be performed. The builder states to the owner, “We did exactly what your inspector advised and or requested, please contact your inspector if you have additional problems with same”. None of us wants to receive that phone call, nor should you.
Originally Posted By: mcyr
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Will, thanks for taking over.
Ditto on agreement.
Marcel
Originally Posted By: tschwalbe
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I hate to say that a NACHI member made a bad call but you did and I hope you dont pay for it later.
I strongly recommend you take a mold course if for no other reason than to learn how to stay out of the poor house. Good Luck Im glad i didnt write that report. 
Originally Posted By: jhagarty
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| tschwalbe wrote: |
|
I hate to say that a NACHI member made a bad call but you did and I hope you dont pay for it later. |
What is the "bad call" you are referencing?
| tschwalbe wrote: |
|
I strongly recommend you take a mold course if for no other reason than to learn how to stay out of the poor house. Good Luck Im glad i didnt write that report.  |
Which Mold Course did you take?
--
Joseph Hagarty
HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com
Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865
HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.
Originally Posted By: lkage
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| whandley wrote: |
| Good Morning David; You seem to be a little argumentative and or confrontational with regard to the mold stuff. I think everyone is trying to assist you, by helping you understand that that one should always refer possible mold issues to an appropriate contractor specializing in environmental, mold, industrial hygiene and or mycology prior to close of escrow. Can you appreciate this scenario? Mold returns to the area you have advised the builder needs to be torn out. The homeowner calls an appropriate environmental consultant who determines that additional remediation should have and now needs to be performed. The builder states to the owner, "We did exactly what your inspector advised and or requested, please contact your inspector if you have additional problems with same". None of us wants to receive that phone call, nor should you.  |
Very well said. Mold training really helps in learning what not to say and how to say it.
--
"I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him."
Galileo Galilei
Originally Posted By: rcooke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I expect some time in the future ( From what I have read ) we can see a reckoning of the times regarding mould.
When I find a dark damp spot I write it up as Damp spot could be mould recommend repair by Qualified Person.
I have taken enough courses on air, water and dampness to realize I am not and never will be qualified to say yes its mould and how to repair it .
I enjoy doing home inspections and wish to stay as far away from court as I can .
When I hear learned people with many degrees not being able to agree, I can see either one making me look stupid in court.
If these people can not agree why would I wish to get into an disagreement with them .
–
Roy Cooke Sr.
http://Royshomeinspection.com
Originally Posted By: dandersen
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| Quote: |
| You seem to be a little argumentative and or confrontational with regard to the mold stuff. |
I was discussing my opinion. Not arguing (till now anyway).
I posted this picture and comment when the builder said: It can't be mold, it's not wood.
Then I get this stuff back:
| Quote: |
| IMHO you did not make the proper call... |
| Quote: |
| Mold training really helps in learning what not to say and how to say it. |
I don't do mold inspection.
On top of that, this is my report (which some of you are commenting on and have not read):
BE IT AMENDED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF TENNESSEE:
SECTION 1. Tennessee Code Annotated, Title 62, Chapter 6. This act shall be known and may be cited as the ?Tennessee Home Inspector License Act 6 of 2005.?
IAW this Act the report addresses only systems or components inspected that, in the opinion of the inspector, is significantly deficient or near the end of the system or component's service life.
This report does not address environmental hazards, including:
Lead-based paint; Radon; Asbestos; Cockroaches; Rodents; Pesticides; Treated lumber; Mold; Mercury; Carbon monoxide; or Other similar environmental hazards;
This report also does not address wood destroying insects and organisms and does not address subterranean systems or system components (operational or non-operational), including: Sewage disposal; Water supply; or Fuel storage or delivery.
| Quote: |
| I strongly recommend you take a mold course if for no other reason than to learn how to stay out of the poor house. |
Why should I take a mold course (which I did)? Why did you take one?
Your not supposed to talk about mold.
The Mold people don't want you telling anyone if it is mold.
They don't want you to know how to fix mold.
They want a referral from you! That's it.
Well thank you Tennessee, I don't have to talk about it! I don't even have to call it out if I see it.
What I WAS calling out was water damage, incorrect installation and materials. You guys drifted the subject, I just stated my opinion on your responses.
Opinion 1: Mold is an issue, like many other issues that have come and gone. Remember when eating too many eggs will kill you, now they are good for you again!? Radon? Lead paint? EIFS Siding?
I have taken a lot of courses that got me all fired up as I walked out the door. Like I think many of you are. I take this mold issue with a grain of salt. I don't have to discuss Mold, but I do, because there are a dozen other factors that are associated to the Mold condition. Moisture barriers, leaking air ducts, site grading, soil drainage, gutter maint, downspouts and diverters, improperly poured concrete, insect infestation, foundation ventilators, leaking plumbing fixtures, unsealed pipe penetrations through foundation walls, improperly finished basements, sump pumps, sewerage ejectors, positive foundation drains, improperly installed packaged HVAC systems, leaking electrical drops, frozen hose bibs, improper irrigation system design, HVAC condensate discharge, and so on...
I told the client to have the contractor remove the damaged materials because they were damaged, improperly installed and the improper materials for the application. The deteriorated condition was supported by mold like substance growing on the materials (indicating that it didn't just get a little wet. It's the same as mushrooms and fungi as far as I'm concerned.
| Quote: |
| Good Luck Im glad i didnt write that report. |
| Quote: |
| I hate to say that a NACHI member made a bad call but you did and I hope you dont pay for it later. |
How can you say it was a bad call? You don't know what the call WAS!
I see a lot of tunnel vision cases. A little education can make things dangerous.
All this "recommend further analysis by a licensed, certified, professional, manufacturers representative. Where do you find these people anyway?
This same house with that black s#!t, I had to call back the HVAC contractor 4 times to fix electrical and mechanical issues reported in the first inspection. The client called again and said it's too hot downstairs!
Yesterday I had an overheating breaker in an HVAC disconnect. I pulled the breaker to inspect the inner panel. The wires fell off the breaker, the ground wire was not hooked up because it was too short, inner cover breaker slots open, no screw in the inner panel, the wires were behind the screw hole and if a screw was installed it would have drilled the wire. No bushings on the liquidtight (just stuck in the bottom of the panel). New HVAC unit, old outdated panel. Homeowner called under warranty while I was there. First thing out of his mouth was "That inspector isn't licensed"!
"Licensed Professional" came before I finished. Left with metal foil tape over the breaker slots. I refused to re-inspect the panel because they used a drill tip screw to secure the panel cover.
| Quote: |
| learn how to stay out of the poor house. |
With professionals like this running around I'm not too concerned about the poor house!
What does concern me is recommending further evaluation on something that dosn't need further evaluating. You think your a$% is covered because you refer it out? Wait till some lawyer figures all this referral expense and lost contracts is his next source of revenue.
When I first started Inspecting Houses my first encounter with a licensed professional , was a structural engineer. The Agent that referred me always had a structural engineer come in with the home inspector. I was a little on edge being in the same house with these big guns! We went about our individual evaluations when he approached me. He asked if I was going up in the attic. I said, Yea! He asked, How are you going to get up there? Don't you have a ladder, I asked! Well I got my ladder up in a while, inspected the attic and left the ladder up for him. I went back up to check the furnace and he was inspecting the roof with a 2 cell AA Flashlight! I offered my 2,000,000 candle power light, which he declined.
As I was packing my truck, the engineer was walking to his truck. "Find anything"? I asked. "No, everything looks good!" "What did you think about that foundation crack over by the garage, I asked?" "What crack?"
Several weeks later I was contacted by the Realtor above to do another inspection for her clients. They didn't by that other house? No, they had to jack the house and replace the foundation! 
That Agent no longer has an Engineer in when I inspect her clients houses unless I find a problem that warrants it. Today, it is still my opinion there was nothing wrong with that foundation (for whatever that's worth).
I used to work with "The real mold" as an HVAC System Design Engineer.
I agree that it is out there and it is real and it can kill some people. But I do not endorse this mold program when it extends to outdoor air environments because someone might open a door or window and let it in!
And for what it's worth, this is just my opinion. I'm not trying to change your opinion that I'm headed for jail. But just maybe, you'll entertain my perspective. Maybe you will learn to think for yourselves someday and decide if the bill of goods delivered to you is really as it seems. Everyone is saying you can't call it mold. You can't offer a remedy (even if it's "fix the gutters"). If you collect it as a test you may be liable...
Why even talk about it?
Have you read your NACHI SOP lately?
| Quote: |
| 11. the presence of potentially hazardous plants or
animals including, but not limited to wood destroying organisms or diseases harmful to humans. 12. the presence of any environmental hazards including, but not limited to toxins, carcinogens, noise, and contaminants in soil, water, and air. |
Originally Posted By: whandley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Happy Labor Day Weekend David; As you mentioned in your last post, you don’t perform mold inspections, nor are you qualified to inspect for mold or render advice with regard to mold remediation. Your statement as follows: “What does concern me is recommending further evaluation on something that dosn’t need further evaluating.” is in and of its self inappropriate. Your NOT qualified to make that statement. That’s why we’re supposed to refer it to an expert in that particular field of expertise. If you still believe this is an appropriate tact to follow during the normal home inspection process, you should consider increasing your E & O Insurance Coverage. You’re going to need it.