So while having coffee with a friend this morning who is an attorney and a CPA I of course brought this discussion up for conversation.
Legally, nothing wrong is here.
Ethically, nothing is wrong here.
The client benefits from the inspector/vendor relationship and agrees that the inspector is working with vendors to provide additional value to their home inspection service.
So this is basically against a non home inspector member who posts stuff like this about other members. Wow, the ethics of this guy are admirable.
Every case brought to trial will have a lawyer arguing on both sides of it. Thus, not every lawyer may agree with yours. As to what is “ethical” in a particular industry, such things are not decided by lawyers and CPAs.
I’m glad you found a support group … but it doesn’t really change anything.
It’s kind of like the post you referred to where an inspector names his business from biblical terms … and then, under the biblical name of his business, publishes disparaging remarks about someone he doesn’t agree with in an “unbiblical” manner. What one says and what one does is not always the same thing. Thanks for making that point.
Do you have a particular reason why you choose to withhold from your clients the fact that you are being compensated by the company that you are selling their personal information to … or do you think that it is none of their business? I think that Nick has given an excellent example as to how being honest with a client under such circumstances can actually be beneficial … to him, as well as your business. Why do you choose to conceal it?
My business practices do not violate this association ethics
Not sure what that means
Again, it was you disparaging a man who you know nothing about. That speaks to your character.
I run my business in a manner that is legal, ethical, and benefits every single client who works with me. My clients are nothing but happy and satisfied with my service.
You will continue to whine to whoever will listen while I continue to grow, the vendor continues to grow, and our clients continue to benefit.
To be fair, I do believe that you are sincere in your intent to provide a good service to your clients, but I think the evidence is clear that your involvement with this alarm lead scam has you at cross purposes.
Being legally protected … and being ethical … are not always the same thing.
There could be a guy in a state that outlaws this type of activity, like Texas or New York, who has been assured by an alarm leads vendor that it is “perfectly legal” in his state to sell his clients by a phone call or message board post … so he signs the contract and begins to sell his clients information and receives his compensation. When a client complains to his licensing board and he tries to get Thornberry to back him up … look at what the contract says that he signed:
Ooops. Who is it, really, that is providing the assurance that the activity is legal? Not Thornberry.
Please tell, though, why it is your choice to conceal from your clients the fact that you are being compensated for the act of providing their personal information to Thornberry. Why must that be withheld from them? Are you really comfortable with that … or is it just because your contract requires it?
Concerned members of the public who are reading this thread out of concern for their privacy might consider some of the advice provided hereas to how to catch and prosecute those who are harassing you with unwanted telephone calls promoting alarm systems.
These lead brokers appear to go to great lengths to conceal their identity from those who they call until they know they have a customer … but there are ways to sucker them into revealing their identity so that you can prosecute and recover a settlement.
BTW, congratulations to Nathan Thornberry et. al. for making very significant changes to “My Engineer On Call” so that it now actually does conform with South Carolina state law and received a license to officially operate last week.
While it no longer promotes the purchase of engineering services for resale to clients and engineers and other eyebrow raising activities … it provides direct access for the client to an engineer and appears to provide training to help inspectors operate certain equipment and other things. It was certainly more than the simple $80 fee and correction of “misinformation” that Thornberry lied about in earlier posts … but, in the end, it got fixed.
Now … back to the sale of a home buyer’s personal information to alarm systems salesmen …
Congratulations to Nathan Thornberry et. al. for making very significant changes to “My Engineer On Call” so that it now actually does conform with South Carolina state law and received a valid license to officially operate last week.
While it no longer promotes the purchase of engineering services for unlicensed resale to clients and contractors - and other eyebrow raising activities … it provides direct access for the inspector’s client to an engineer if the inspector wants to pay for it and appears to provide some type of training to help inspectors operate certain equipment and other things. The changes are certainly more than the simple $80 fee and correction of “misinformation” that Thornberry lied about in earlier posts … but, in the end, it got fixed…
Now … back to the sale of a home buyer’s personal information to alarm systems salesmen …
Congratulations Dingleberry,
Doesn’t it feel good to come clean in your business dealings??
Thanks for bringing this to the membership and the State of South Carolina’s attention Jim. You are to be commended.
Well darn it, I guess it’s time to update our list.
Let’s add this all up, again …
The State of South Carolina, in issuing a cease and desist order regarding his unlicensed engineering activities, is wrong.
The president of the ASHI Mid-Atlantic Chapter (who also sits on ASHI’s Board of Directors), who published that the sale of the private information of a home buyer by a home inspector violates the ASHI code of ethics, is wrong.
Members of the public who post on the message board that they object to these practices are (according to him) “fake” people that he alleges that I am impersonating … and are wrong.
The entire Ethics and Standards of Practice Committee for the International Association of Certified Home Inspectors, in finding him guilty of multiple violations of the ethical code and suspending his membership, is wrong.
The CPAs and Attorneys who have reportedly advised members against participating in certain of these gimmicks are wrong.
The states of Indiana, New York and Missouri who have stated that his engineering scam is not compliant with their laws are wrong.
Members who oppose him and his scams are wrong.
Joe Farsetta, the chairman of the Ethics Committee, in describing the ethics code that he co-wrote, is wrong.
And … now … (insert drum roll, here) … the South Carolina Board of Engineers made an “administrative mistake” when they required a license for Thornberry’s business that had no license … and were wrong in doing so.
Only the alarm systems lead broker who pays kickbacks to home inspectors that sell him the private information about their home buying clients knows what is “right”. Others are “misinformed”, “idiots” and “embarassing”.
Since you’re back and in a talkative mood … please share the legitimate reason that you have for your contractual requirement for the inspector who sells you the private information about his client to conceal his compensation … by forbidding him to mention even the “existence” of his agreement with you which contains the terms of what you call his “compensation”.
Thanks.
By the way, if my bringing attention to your scam has drawn so much business to you from inspectors wanting to sell their clients personal information to you in record setting numbers … why are you not thanking me instead of libeling me with continuous false statements about my business? Just curious.
I suppose your threats of further slander and lies is supposed to be intimidating to me, but it’s not.
The facts concerning your purchases of private information from home inspectors for your use in selling alarm systems is public, as are your unusual responses. Let the chips fall where they may.
Those that are reading this thread, as well as others, are directly involved with various State’s and Federal agencies. They have obtained a significant amount of information regarding the operational practices of Home Inspectors. It will be interesting to see what actions are taken by those reading these threads.
These are typical tactics that companies will use to hide their operations and place the users of their products and services in the direct line of fire if the consumer does take action when they believe they have been wronged. In this case the Home Inspector sits in the middle and will be the subject of the consumers’ legal complaints. At the same time the Home Inspector can not violate the agreement with the company they have signed this agreement with even if the Home Inspector knows the company is not operating properly. If the Home Inspector violates that agreement they then are subject to a lawsuit from the other direction (from the company they buy the product or service from).
In layman’s terms this can be called the “Lucky Piere” system. The Home Inspector will receive it from both ends.
That is the key to any business operation. The consumer has the right to know when any business sells their personal information, or uses the consumer in other ways, to continually profit at the loss to the consumer. In your example above even I would do as your clients did and help you make that extra money. After all the happier you are about performing a service for me then most likely the better you will do that service.
There is a movement among home inspectors who are not exploiting home buyers in this manner to identify that fact and to set themselves apart from inspectors who do. You can read more about that, here. If your membership status makes this thread unavailable to you, there will be a public discussion on the same topic once the details have been hashed out and the identifying logo and applications are finalized.
Look at the language that is presently being inserted into the inspection agreement that home inspectors who are selling private information about their clients to telemarketers and scammers and are having the home buyer sign …
One notable and interesting fact is that the “third party service provider” is not identified. Thus, when a variety of vendors who are in the business of selling and trading client information are all electronically linked to one another, this agreement the home buyer is signing gives ALL of them the blanket authority to exploit the home buyer in any manner they wish.
The home buyer has even waived their rights under any “no call list” they have taken the trouble to include themselves on.
Simply by choosing one of these home inspectors to inspect their house … the home buyer gives up a significant number of their rights to privacy. The public, of course, can still choose to hire that inspector … but at least they will know that they have a choice.
Your posts are on target. Hope you can keep us up to date on any actions being taken or contemplated by those with whom you have shared these links.