# Need some help... **URL:** \ **Category:** Structural Inspections\ **Created:** [August 14, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258 "2012-08-14T23:33:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![canderson5](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/canderson5/32/1814_2.png) [@canderson5](https://forum.nachi.org/u/canderson5)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258/1 "2012-08-14T23:33:54Z")
Any guys who are familiar with framing techniques, are these hangers adequate? They look like standard 2x6 joist hangers and they have 4 nails total. I’ve included a photo of where they are located. The trusses are only on the front of the house over the garage as the back of the house is a second floor.(4th photo) Would they nail through the back of the header into the truss or would the hanger be enough. It just looks small to me. There isn’t any visible movement or failure, but four nails seems skimpy. ![IMG_7131.jpg](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/e/c/ec1c1353ab0f5ec12dc31225fe65bc493f43ee88.jpeg) ![IMG_7177.JPG](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/f/9/f90fbb79d27591bf2e5269b013f38626cc5f796e.jpeg) ![IMG_7132.JPG](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/e/7/e7b778b3b4569cda4b4e4845a3fc3efa743ec81e.jpeg) ![IMG_7178.JPG](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/b/5/b55b6f26fc507166fe782f7ba8966a4a75500626.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![pcampbell](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/pcampbell/32/1621_2.png) [@pcampbell](https://forum.nachi.org/u/pcampbell)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258/2 "2012-08-15T00:39:13Z")
> [@canderson5](#): > > Any guys who are familiar with framing techniques, are these hangers adequate? They look like standard 2x6 joist hangers and they have 4 nails total. > There isn’t any visible movement or failure, but four nails seems skimpy. If there is a fastener hole, I fill it with the appropriate manufacturer’s recommended fastener, exactly per their specifications. When you fill every hole with what they want it is hard to go wrong. ---
**Author:** ![lkage](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/lkage/32/347658_2.png) [@lkage](https://forum.nachi.org/u/lkage)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258/3 "2012-08-15T02:06:26Z")
It seems like this would have been more substantial: [![](https://www2.strongtie.com/graphics/products/large/081a-2011.gif) ](https://www2.strongtie.com/graphics/products/large/081a-2011.gif) ---
**Author:** ![canderson5](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/canderson5/32/1814_2.png) [@canderson5](https://forum.nachi.org/u/canderson5)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258/4 "2012-08-15T02:36:46Z")
Yes that’s really my concern, the size and design of the hanger seems small. I thought the shear on those nails, assuming they are 10d, is only about 100lbs, but I’m trying to confirm that. That would put the shear strength at only 400 unless there is some other fastener going through the back. ---
**Author:** ![gmathias1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/gmathias1/32/194308_2.png) [@gmathias1](https://forum.nachi.org/u/gmathias1)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258/5 "2012-08-15T02:54:15Z")
That is a joist hanger and not a truss hanger. There is no way in the world that is correct. Looks like a 2x6 Joist hanger to me. Not sure of the loading for that hanger but it would never pass here. This is the sort of hanger you should see for this application. ![134a-2011.gif](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/1/d/1d5bb7d935d9c19b917486ee87b3d3c0c056aeb9.gif) ---
**Author:** ![jszczesny](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jszczesny/32/229323_2.png) [@jszczesny](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jszczesny)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258/6 "2012-08-15T04:05:53Z")
> [@](#): > > That is a joist hanger and not a truss hanger. There is no way in the world that is correct. Looks like a 2x6 Joist hanger to me. Not sure of the loading for that hanger but it would never pass here. This is the sort of hanger you should see for this application. correct. And it should not have regular 10d nails, TICO nails in each hanger hole. ---
**Author:** ![ryoung7](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/ryoung7/32/188798_2.png) [@ryoung7](https://forum.nachi.org/u/ryoung7)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 11:42am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258/7 "2012-08-15T11:42:36Z")
\*\*They look like standard 2x6 joist hangers and they have 4 nails total. \*\* So do the size of the hangers. ---
**Author:** ![ryoung7](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/ryoung7/32/188798_2.png) [@ryoung7](https://forum.nachi.org/u/ryoung7)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 11:47am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258/8 "2012-08-15T11:47:15Z")
2 x 6-8 Joist Hanger 18 Gauge 2 x 6-8 Joist Hanger 18 Gauge USP STRUCTURAL CONNECTORS Fastenal Part No. (SKU): 0123537 Manufacturer Part No.: JUS26 UNSPSC: 31162306 Manufacturer: USP STRUCTURAL CONNECTORS Category: Fasteners \> Hardware \> Lumber Connectors \> Joist Hangers Wholesale Price: $1.35 Now those are joist hangers.being used for more load than a floor joist. ---
**Author:** ![kwood](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/kwood/32/473_2.png) [@kwood](https://forum.nachi.org/u/kwood)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 12:24pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258/9 "2012-08-15T12:24:32Z")
I would just recommend what Larry is displaying for your area. Simpson strong-tie would be mentioned to my Client after they ask for consulting. ---
**Author:** ![canderson5](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/canderson5/32/1814_2.png) [@canderson5](https://forum.nachi.org/u/canderson5)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258/10 "2012-08-15T14:35:06Z")
> [@ryoung7](#): > > Now those are joist hangers.being used for more load than a floor joist. Not only that, but because of the gusset plates, they haven’t been toenailed which means whatever their rating, it is not fully applied. ---
**Author:** ![jhaynes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce7236/32.png) [@jhaynes](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jhaynes)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258/11 "2012-08-15T15:54:08Z")
A someone else pointed out, a top mount hanger would have been preferred however when all is said and done its a question that only an engineer can answer based upon the load coming down the hanger…defer… ---
**Author:** ![rcherchuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@rcherchuk](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rcherchuk)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258/12 "2012-08-15T18:49:23Z")
> [@canderson5](#): > > Yes that’s really my concern, the size and design of the hanger seems small. I thought the shear on those nails, assuming they are 10d, is only about 100lbs, but I’m trying to confirm that. That would put the shear strength at only 400 unless there is some other fastener going through the back. If you are concerned about a probable risk to your client, then it would make much sense to defer this to a structural engineer. I don’t believe that inspectors are qualified to determine the size and design of a hanger, or the shear strength of nails in a given species of timber, etc. They are not code inspectors either. Since the minimum code requirements (for safety) and required structural norms for this situation are not meant to be determined by the inspector, as part of a typical visual inspection, it would be difficult for you to determine the appropriate defect to remedy the situation. ---
**Author:** ![canderson5](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/canderson5/32/1814_2.png) [@canderson5](https://forum.nachi.org/u/canderson5)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 1:12am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258/13 "2012-08-16T01:12:32Z")
> [@rcherchuk](#): > > If you are concerned about a probable risk to your client, then it would make much sense to defer this to a structural engineer. I don’t believe that inspectors are qualified to determine the size and design of a hanger, or the shear strength of nails in a given species of timber, etc. They are not code inspectors either. > > Since the minimum code requirements (for safety) and required structural norms for this situation are not meant to be determined by the inspector, as part of a typical visual inspection, it would be difficult for you to determine the appropriate defect to remedy the situation. Thus the beauty of InterNACHI where an inspector can discuss his thoughts out loud about issues he is evaluating without worrying about liability, limits of inspections and following SOP. Had I been wondering how to perform an inspection or write the report, I would have focused my inquiry to that end. ---
**Author:** ![ryoung7](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/ryoung7/32/188798_2.png) [@ryoung7](https://forum.nachi.org/u/ryoung7)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258/14 "2012-08-16T01:45:44Z")
> [@canderson5](#): > > Not only that, but because of the gusset plates, they haven’t been toenailed which means whatever their rating, it is not fully applied. I seemed to have missed that. I saw the _ **gusset plates** _ and have little referencing or have written up the defective install IE: I know I would do so after if ever encountered. I have spent 10 to 14 hours doing write ups on information I have yet to encounter. I am rebuilding my canned narratives. link please. Thank you Mr. A. ---
**Author:** ![gmathias1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/gmathias1/32/194308_2.png) [@gmathias1](https://forum.nachi.org/u/gmathias1)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258/15 "2012-08-16T02:09:46Z")
> [@rcherchuk](#): > > If you are concerned about a probable risk to your client, then it would make much sense to defer this to a structural engineer. I don’t believe that inspectors are qualified to determine the size and design of a hanger, or the shear strength of nails in a given species of timber, etc. They are not code inspectors either. > > Since the minimum code requirements (for safety) and required structural norms for this situation are not meant to be determined by the inspector, as part of a typical visual inspection, it would be difficult for you to determine the appropriate defect to remedy the situation. You are correct in defering it to an engineer. My thought on including a picture is to show what one should look like. How do you know if it is wrong if you don’t know what you are looking at? JMO ---
**Author:** ![rcherchuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@rcherchuk](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rcherchuk)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258/16 "2012-08-16T22:21:03Z")
> [@canderson5](#): > > Thus the beauty of InterNACHI where an inspector can discuss his thoughts out loud about issues he is evaluating without worrying about liability, limits of inspections and following SOP. > > Had I been wondering how to perform an inspection or write the report, I would have focused my inquiry to that end. Yes and your concerns are on the record too! To **evaluate** something (a technical evaluation, of course) means a critical judgement is required. This judgement requires calculations and a consideration of the codes. So for the reasons originally presented, an evaluation based on given info hereon, would not yield much information for you to base a judgement on. You stated you needed help and were concerned about the connection detail, so I trust you defered this to a structural engineer. ---
**Author:** ![mcyr](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mcyr/32/173319_2.png) [@mcyr](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mcyr)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258/17 "2012-08-16T23:00:48Z")
Cameron, not only the hangers are wrong, the whole installation is wrong. That gable end truss is not a Girder Truss designed to carry the main roof trusses. In the application attempt of the design, the gable end truss we see in the photo, should have been installed to the exterior of the supporting wall underneath and that would have provided support bearing for those main trusses. I can’t tell where the location of that header above the overhead door is in relation to all of this, but sure dosen’t look right from this perspective angle. I would have recommended a Qualified Contractor to evaluate this installation further. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sfogarty](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/sfogarty/32/58235_2.png) [@sfogarty](https://forum.nachi.org/u/sfogarty)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258/18 "2012-08-17T01:34:11Z")
> [@mcyr](#): > > I would have recommended a Qualified Contractor to evaluate this installation further. 🙂 What do you do Marcel, you are the qualified contractor? Do you run out to the truck and put on a different hat? ---
**Author:** ![mcyr](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mcyr/32/173319_2.png) [@mcyr](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mcyr)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258/19 "2012-08-17T20:51:01Z")
> [@sfogarty](#): > > What do you do Marcel, you are the qualified contractor? Do you run out to the truck and put on a different hat? Only after I get home and start writting. :mrgreen:😉 ---
**Author:** ![ryoung7](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/ryoung7/32/188798_2.png) [@ryoung7](https://forum.nachi.org/u/ryoung7)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258/20 "2012-08-17T21:49:48Z")
Not being able to see the defect from Cameron’s photo I went looking. Girder truss assembly. [PDF](http://www.allpan.com/res/FramingWithRoofs.pdf) Here is a link with 3d photo and [illustrations.](http://www.builderbill-diy-help.com/girder-truss.html) I am still looking for the defective install. Marcel. Could you elaborate please. [Next page](https://forum.nachi.org/t/need-some-help/71258.md?page=2)