Need to know????

All-knowing and always correct:

Please explain this to me:

No global warming effect by humans? Just natural variations?

Up here in Canada, we are about to experience some record high temps again this weekend. I used to see new record highs being set by fractions of a degree but in March, for sure, some were 6-8* Celsius higher records. Just natural variations, you say.

The original folks purporting acelerating warming predicted more extreme weather events such as these. Could they be correct or just plain chance? Seeing more of these 1-in-100 year events just years or even months apart. Enlighten me!!!

Hey George have you seen this scam yet, some fools actually WANT to pay more for electricity. It will happen anyway as long as Dalton is in charge


Well they got the “bull” part right. As long as you are willing to buy into the farce of “man made global warming” I guess it makes sense. But as soon as you start to actually look at the whole big lie instead of following like a sheep, it falls apart.

By the way, Brian, what is happening outside your window is called “weather”. You cannot base the future of the planet’s economy on today’s weather forecast. Unless you are Al Gore of course. :D:roll:

Well, talk to the folks in Rhode Island about “weather”. When the weather is getting real extreme on a more regular basis…like they haven’t seen this for 200 years or more. What actual scientific records did they keep 200 years ago. What we have was anecdotal or things like journal entries. Yes we had a large flood 200 years ago but how severe was it compared to today.

BTW, George, some of the “junk science” debunkers used to work for the tobacco industry when they were trying to save their a-sses from emerging scientific truths like “smoking causes some major health problems”. Remeber, the cig companies own research was suppressed to keep sales up.

I prefer to err on the safe side of this one, that something other than natural variation is occuring also…this we can do something about. We don’t need the two pigy-backed to the point we’re going to being constantly fixing/cleaning up after something that could have been avoided in the first place.

This is what’s happening with species extinction. Do you also agree that we should not be spending money to save the last black rhinocerous’, elephants, snow leopards, right whales…the list is long. Just kill and use’em 'til their gone…what’s the famous lines…

"And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

There, I guess we have permission to screw this earth…now let’s proceed to make $$$$$ on this god-given right.

All right!!! All right!!! All Right!! Good ole open market laws of supply and demand at work…just like Adam Smith wrote a couple centuries ago…“laissez-faire” economics…leave me alone until until I harvest 'til it’s all gone and my job is gone and…then what…blame the gov for not protecting me from myself…and then ask the gov to make me a job or save my house and family.

Talk to the fishing families of Newfoundland still waiting for the cod to return after 15 years of virtually no fishing there. Thanks to the good ole Conservative boy from back home, John Crosby, for not jumping in when necessary. He set catch limits like “catch 1/2 the annually decreasing tonnage of the year before”…See how this quickly goes from 5 million tons/year to zilch (especially when we now have radar to find them)!!..great conservation plan…now they’re blaming the seals for eating all the cod!!! Short-sighted…no sh-t!!!

The other scam also is: for a mere $100,000 you can have a 30,000 solar panel system in your yard, the government (us) will pay you up to .80 cents per kwh you send into the grid and then sell it back to us at .05 cents per kwh. UUHHHHH where does the other .75 cents come from?? Even a knuckledragging redneck conservative like me can see that's a bad deal. That 24 billion deficit is a joke compared to what we will have if this keeps going. I’m all for alternative power, but these schemes the liberals come up with are classic.

Where do you get these #'s from?


Nobody is suggesting that it is OK to watch endangered species die. However it is stupid to demand that if we spend money to save them we must also support this lie of man made global warming. And how you managed to tie John Crosby to man made global warming is a mystery or was that just a “straw man”?


It’s about $100,000 to set this system up, usually 8 panels with proper pedestals etc. and all the right equipment to hook into the grid. Payback is about $15,000 per year.And you still have a hydro bill. For $30,000 I can set myself up with solar, wind, batteries, inverter and 12kw generator for back up and cut the wires to hydro for good. These microfit systems just remind me too much of kyoto and any other usekess money sucking scheme.

I forgot also, the $24 billion deficit is admited by Dalton himself so it is likely closer to $40 billion

HHMMMM!! 2 year payback sounds like a good deal…then you make a lot of extra $$$$$$$ each year. You should be able to sell your system on the open market easily. Sounds like a winner. Are you going to do it??

I didn’t link your friend Mr. Crosby to global warming…just an analogy of how our previous governments dealt with issues- They basically tried to negate the facts and/or not upset the apple cart (read: DO LITTLE OR NOTHING). Where did that get us?-depleted resources. Same thing happening with “good” wood resources in the Maritimes. Irving, based in NB, is now harvesting wood in Maine and NS.

Do you believe that all “global warming” scientists are fudging the #'s?

Recent high temp records set:
My old home town in Northern NB set a daily high for April 2/3 of *11+C in 2008; it set a new record high of 21-22*C over the recent holiday weekend. As I said earlier, records are not being set in fractions of a degree anymore!

Another analogy:

If the world track record for the mile went from 3:43 min to 3:25 in one race or the 100 meters from 9.58 sec to 8.25 sec, the sports world would be so shocked that claims of fraud/drug use/etc would be rampant. But new extreme weather records within a few years of each other are no problem, right???

Listen to the longtime Arctic reseacher who noted a change in the type of Artic sea ice he’s seeing. From satellite pictures/radar, things didn’t look too bad until they sailed up and into it…something they could not do before…it wasn’t solid ice pack but more like crystalline structure holding air!! This guy doesn’t need more research funds as is regularly claimed by junk science aficionados…judging by his age he’s soon close to retirement!!

It would be a good deal for the $30.000 system, there isn’t much excess to send back into the grid, it’s the government (us) subsidized $100,000 system that gives the 15,000 payback. My problem with this is: they pay 80 cents kwh and sell it for 5 cents, where is the 75 cents difference coming from? I thought this was a great idea at first, and no one can give me answers.

The same place every government subsidy comes from.

The taxpayers.

Exactly, we were subsidized in Ontario for many years by the taxpayers for hydro, most of us not knowing the true cost of electricity. When it wasn’t subsidized any longer our rates more than doubled and we are paying a percentage for debt reducion. We pay about 5 cents kwh for the power it’s self, when you add in the taxes and ridiculous service charges, we pay about 12 cents. My average monthly bill is $300, more if I turn a light on…

There were always voices in the wilderness saying we weren’t paying the true cost of electricity. But since they weren’t mainstream and in the press (green groups, Tree huggers,etc) but nobody listened to them!! Mega-projects buy VOTES…I call these “** Monuments to our huge longterm debt**”

We just got the provincial GST bumped up 2% yesterday in the budget by the new NDP governmant here…and I’m glad we did. Hope these guys make us “bite the bullet”, which the last conservative gov didn’t. They reduced the tax by 2% while the debt went up. They bought us with our own $$$$$…reduce taxes when we really shouldn’t but h-ell we need the votes at any cost…just the anecdotal “bottle of rum” in another form.

About 3 elections ago, the NDP (I usually vote NDP or Liberal) tried the Conservative trick of promising a tax decrease also. That immediately meant I would not vote for them. BTW, the Consrvatives did get in but soon announced they would not be giving us the promised decrease…That premier didn’t hang around for long!!!

Another BTW: Checking the political history of Ontario, I notice Conservatives ruled during the explosive growth period from 1950 to 1985 and another 7 or so years since 1985. It was during the 60’s to 1985 period that most of your mega-generating capacity was built or begun building. Why didn’t they tell the truth?

I am familiar with these 10kw systems that are advertised in Ontario and looking at all the information if someone had the $80, 000 to invest its a great deal. You agree to purchase this system, lets say you re mortgage your house to do so and now you have a $160 000 mortgage (just hypothetically) . you purchase and install sign a 20yr contract with Ontario power authority that hydro will pay you 80 cent kwh for an income of lets say $13 000 annually to be on the safe side then you are making $1080 a month. Give yourself a $1000 mortgage payment at 6% your house will be payed off in 20yrs. your mortgage free for the next 20yrs. This sounds like a good deal to me, and one i may take advantage of.

Our Ontario Hydro bosses make in excess of $1,000,000 a year, hydro owned helicopters to fly them to cottages in musoka so they don;t sit in traffic with the peons (peons that pay their 7 figure wages)Even when they leave they get free buck for life in excess of what you and I will ever see combined. I suppose that’s the true cost of hydro. My father worked for them, years ago, it was a 5 hour drive home on friday, he was home at noon and paid until 5 oclock every weekend, I think when he retired in 1980 he was around $19 hr. plus all living and travel expenses. Paid min 55 hours, cannot remember him working a full week but never missed a full pay. Union of course, never get away with that in the real world. True cost of hydro…maybe. I think you get my drift.
Ontario and Alberta were Conservative run for many years, they were the economic hubs of Canada, 8 years of Liberal government and we are 24 billion deficit and now considered a “have not” province. Sask. finally smartened up 2 years ago and voted Conservative now jobs are appearing, soon a “have” province and that province of about a million people will help support our failures in Ontario until we smarten up again and get rid of the worst premier ever. On July first we will see the single biggest tax increase Ontario has ever seen, they are also talking about metering private wells and charging us for water I spent $10,000 to get at. I’m not sure how many inspections you can do in a day Brian to cover taxes, we are taxed at almost 60% now, how much more can we pay?

I hear you Tim, it looks great. But where does the 75 cent per kwh loss come from? It just looks like another carbon credits kyoto scheme. If you have the funds to do this, put in your own system for $30,000 and pay your mortgage with the old hydro bill money. Get rid of the dirty buggers for ever.Don’t get me wrong, I love alternative energy, I just want it to be real and sustainable

Only in Canada EH??

The German gov pays appx. $0.50/kW produced for putting up solar panels.

Makes the payback pretty nice for those having land to put them on.

Of course the taxpayers are the ones getting screwed providing the subsidy.:roll:

Edit: New info

I guess that plan is now changing. Let the whining begin. :wink:

Germany to slash solar panel subsidies
Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:24pm EST

(Reuters) - Germany on Wednesday slashed subsidies for solar power in a move to ease the world’s largest solar market toward free competition, drawing howls of protest from panel manufacturers.

Environment Minister Norbert Roettgen set out a 15 percent cut in so-called feed-in tariffs for new roof-mounted solar power from April, confirming figures reported earlier by Reuters.

Frank Asbeck, head of Germany’s biggest solar company by revenue, SolarWorld, said the cuts were unacceptable.

“The drastic short-term reduction of the tariffs in the German renewable Act will have significantly negative consequences on the German solar industry,” said Marko Schulz, board member at Q-Cells, one of the world’s largest makers of solar cells, told Reuters.

The move was also criticized by Bjoern Brenna, chief financial officer at Norway’s Renewable Energy Corp (REC), Europe’s largest solar company by market capitalization. Roettgen said that the tariffs for solar energy generated from open field and farmland sites would also be cut from July, by 15 percent and 25 percent respectively.

Utilities currently pay about 39 euro cents in feed-in tariffs per kilowatt for solar power, about eight times as much they pay for conventional power, and industry experts expect the planned cut to speed up the shakeup in the industry.

Additional cuts of 2.5 percent will be made from 2011 if installations exceed 3,500 megawatts (MW) in the previous 12 months, according to the plans.

“There will be changes. We want to introduce the free market and not provide existence guarantees for participants. It’ll be a boost for technology,” Roettgen said in Berlin.

Since Germany’s new center-right coalition government was elected in September, the solar power industry has expected cuts to the country’s solar aid, prompting installers to rush to build projects before they are announced.