# Neutral bus bar **URL:** \ **Category:** Electrical Inspections\ **Created:** [May 12, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208 "2011-05-12T15:38:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rrudomanski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9e5f3/32.png) [@rrudomanski](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rrudomanski)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208/1 "2011-05-12T15:38:15Z")
Ok, I sited this on an inspection, the owner called an electrician, was charged $70 for the visit, and the electrician stated there was no violations in the main panel and left. Does the Florida code specifically state one neutral to a lug? I’ve seen this a lot on houses less than five years old. Rick ![2004_0227Macko0022.jpg](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/6/0/6016321b3f2abf4c11c4e40afe9a3b70b30bda78.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![jpope](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jpope/32/59425_2.png) [@jpope](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jpope)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208/2 "2011-05-12T15:48:32Z")
Unless you are a code enforcement officer in your jurisdiction, you have no authority to call this a “violation.” Current NEC says one neutral per lug, and it’s likely the the panel listing says the same thing. Check the panel legend on the cover. ---
**Author:** ![ccurrins](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/ccurrins/32/225758_2.png) [@ccurrins](https://forum.nachi.org/u/ccurrins)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208/3 "2011-05-12T15:52:55Z")
[http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z303/starstream4627/ground-neutral-terminalbars.jpg?t=1233679569](http://javascript%3cb%3e%3c/b%3E:void%280%29;) ---
**Author:** ![rrudomanski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9e5f3/32.png) [@rrudomanski](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rrudomanski)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208/4 "2011-05-12T16:02:18Z")
Jeff, Thanks for your reply. I am not in code inforcement nor did I call this a violation. I pointed it out as a hazard with the typical verbage. I clearly see two neutrals on one lug. Are you saying I was wrong to spot it as an issue? Rick ---
**Author:** ![dandersen](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dandersen/32/59398_2.png) [@dandersen](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dandersen)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208/5 "2011-05-12T16:02:27Z")
If nothing else, there are two different sized wires under the same terminal. How old is the panel? What date code are you citing? ---
**Author:** ![rrudomanski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9e5f3/32.png) [@rrudomanski](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rrudomanski)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208/6 "2011-05-12T16:05:53Z")
Ten years old. My issue is, I did this as move in certified, and if the buyer does an inspection it will come up as an issue. ---
**Author:** ![dandersen](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dandersen/32/59398_2.png) [@dandersen](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dandersen)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208/7 "2011-05-12T16:25:57Z")
If they don’t want to fix it let it come up… ---
**Author:** ![jpope](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jpope/32/59425_2.png) [@jpope](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jpope)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208/8 "2011-05-12T16:33:02Z")
> [@rrudomanski](#): > > Are you saying I was wrong to spot it as an issue? Not at all. The wording in your report can make you look like you’re a competent inspector, or it can make you look like a “fool” in the eyes of the home owner and the contractors that might be involved. Something along these lines would have been appropriate based on a 10 year old installation; Current standards allow for only one neutral to terminate under the individual lugs of the terminal bar. Although this may have been an acceptable practice at the time the panel was installed, we recommend that the neutrals be separated and terminated in a manner consistent with the most current safety standards. ---
**Author:** ![rrudomanski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9e5f3/32.png) [@rrudomanski](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rrudomanski)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208/9 "2011-05-12T16:41:20Z")
Thanks David, But the issue is, the electrician he called said, “the box is fine there are no violations–the wiring is fine.” Would another electrician identify the issue and fix it? Should I have sited it as an issue and then leave it alone and give them the move in certified approval? Its not the owner won’t fix it; he believes the electrician didn’t see any reason to change the wiring. ---
**Author:** ![ccurrins](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/ccurrins/32/225758_2.png) [@ccurrins](https://forum.nachi.org/u/ccurrins)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208/10 "2011-05-12T17:07:59Z")
> [@rrudomanski](#): > > Thanks David, > But the issue is, the electrician he called said, “\*\*the box is fine there are no violations–the wiring is fine.” \*\*Would another electrician identify the issue and fix it? Should I have sited it as an issue and then leave it alone and give them the move in certified approval? Its not the owner won’t fix it; he believes the electrician didn’t see any reason to change the wiring. Tell the _electrician_ to put that in writing. One neutral per lug has been required by the NEC since at least 2002. ---
**Author:** ![dandersen](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dandersen/32/59398_2.png) [@dandersen](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dandersen)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 7:01pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208/11 "2011-05-12T19:01:46Z")
Rick I don’t know how you handle your move in certified program so don’t intend to try to tell you what to do; but as Jeff pointed out, this is an issue of today’s standards versus those of yesteryear. Can you just put in there that this is a condition that is no longer acceptable in today’s standards, however the current homeowner is not required to make any upgrades until service is changed. You are advising everyone of the condition that continues to exist. Get a copy of the state disclosure requirements from where you live (the real estate agents have them). These things normally set the tone by which you should be reporting by. If you are inspecting a house built in 1901, is it a deficiency not to have two dedicated circuits that are GFCI protected the kitchen? No. However when someone starts plugging in extension cords all over the place it does become a hazard. You’re not certifying the home to be up to current building standards. You are helping the seller “disclose”. The seller is not required to fix anything, simply disclose it. ---
**Author:** ![sfogarty](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/sfogarty/32/58235_2.png) [@sfogarty](https://forum.nachi.org/u/sfogarty)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208/12 "2011-05-12T23:30:02Z")
> [@jpope](#): > > Not at all. > > The wording in your report can make you look like you’re a competent inspector, or it can make you look like a “fool” in the eyes of the home owner and the contractors that might be involved. > > Something along these lines would have been appropriate based on a 10 year old installation; > > Current standards allow for only one neutral to terminate under the individual lugs of the terminal bar. Although this may have been an acceptable practice at the time the panel was installed, we recommend that the neutrals be separated and terminated in a manner consistent with the most current safety standards. Mine says generally the same thing. The neutral wires are grouped together inside the panel at the neutral buss bar. All wires should terminate into individual set screws by today’s standards.This was more than likely not a requirement at the time of construction, but is a updated safety requirement and should be repaired if you choose to. A qualified electrician should always perform this repair. ---
**Author:** ![lkage](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/lkage/32/347658_2.png) [@lkage](https://forum.nachi.org/u/lkage)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208/13 "2011-05-12T23:41:43Z")
> [@sfogarty](#): > > Mine says generally the same thing. > > The neutral wires are grouped together inside the panel at the neutral buss bar. \*\*All wires should terminate into individual set screws by today’s standards.\*\*This was more than likely not a requirement at the time of construction, but is a updated safety requirement and should be repaired if you choose to. A qualified electrician should always perform this repair. You may want to clarify the above bolded sentence. [http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z303/starstream4627/ground-neutral-terminalbars.jpg?t=1233679569](http://javascript%3cb%3e%3c/b%3E:void%280%29;) ---
**Author:** ![ccurrins](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/ccurrins/32/225758_2.png) [@ccurrins](https://forum.nachi.org/u/ccurrins)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208/14 "2011-05-12T23:56:55Z")
> [@sfogarty](#): > > This was more than likely not a requirement at the time of construction, but is a updated safety requirement **and should be repaired if you choose to.**??? Not giving you a hard time, but you might want to read the **bold** phrase a few times. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Port](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bc8723/32.png) [@Jim\_Port](https://forum.nachi.org/u/Jim_Port)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 12:29am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208/15 "2011-05-13T00:29:15Z")
More than likely it was required at the time of construction also. Someone failed to read the panel label. This is why the requirement was added to the NEC as too many were not aware of the listing and labeling requirements that were already in place. ---
**Author:** ![sfogarty](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/sfogarty/32/58235_2.png) [@sfogarty](https://forum.nachi.org/u/sfogarty)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208/16 "2011-05-13T01:41:01Z")
> [@ccurrins](#): > > Not giving you a hard time, but you might want to read the **bold** phrase a few times. It was sufficent for the time it was installed, and complied with the AHJ. Its not a repair. Its only a recommendation to update it. Are you going to request they rewire a 2 strand romex because it doesn’t meet todays standards? ---
**Author:** ![sfogarty](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/sfogarty/32/58235_2.png) [@sfogarty](https://forum.nachi.org/u/sfogarty)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208/17 "2011-05-13T01:42:32Z")
> [@lkage](#): > > You may want to clarify the above bolded sentence. > > [http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z303/starstream4627/ground-neutral-terminalbars.jpg?t=1233679569](http://javascript%3cb%3e%3c/b%3E:void%280%29;) I would hope that since the topic was about neutral wires, then most should comprehend this. But hey I will make the correction. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![ccurrins](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/ccurrins/32/225758_2.png) [@ccurrins](https://forum.nachi.org/u/ccurrins)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208/18 "2011-05-13T01:57:27Z")
> [@sfogarty](#): > > It was sufficent for the time it was installed, and complied with the AHJ. Its not a repair. Its only a recommendation to update it. Are you going to request they rewire a 2 strand romex because it doesn’t meet todays standards? Not at all. you missed my point. This ( \*\*and should be repaired if you choose to.) \*\*doesn’t make sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![jpope](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jpope/32/59425_2.png) [@jpope](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jpope)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208/19 "2011-05-13T02:09:07Z")
> [@ccurrins](#): > > This ( \*\*and should be repaired if you choose to.) \*\*doesn’t make since to me. Doesn’t make **since** to me either ;), but I’d be happy to make cents (sense) of it for you 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ccurrins](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/ccurrins/32/225758_2.png) [@ccurrins](https://forum.nachi.org/u/ccurrins)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208/20 "2011-05-13T02:57:58Z")
> [@jpope](#): > > Doesn’t make **since** to me either ;), but I’d be happy to make cents (sense) of it for you 😃 Ha…ha :oops::oops: I have a bad habit of doing that since I can’t remember when. [Next page](https://forum.nachi.org/t/neutral-bus-bar/59208.md?page=2)