Higher your own structural engineer NOW Please
Something is very wrong in my opinion.
What you need more than anything right now is a structural engineer. I was a builder for 25 years and I can tell you firsthand that the builder is either lying or has no idea what has been done at the site. Either of these versions are very troubling. All I can say is that the slab was improperly poured and will need to most likely be completely removed. The video of you jumping on the floor says it all - no way the concrete should budge and no way dirt should be popping out of the crack. STRUCTURAL ENGINEER NEEDED ASAP!
Listen to what everyone here has said about a lawyer and your own SE, if you have had other problems and the contractor says this is okay then no telling what else he is hiding.
And that dirt under it should not have been dry when poured.
HUH? Don’t slabs get vapor barriers in your area? Dust should not come up through the crack. I actually thought that was sawdust from framing the walls in the basement. I agree with everybody that posted…SE needed with core drilling and full assessment. Just by looking at the topping, it looks like it was poured too wet and too thin.
Please stay in touch and let us know how things are progressing .
This has been a great learning for all
Tell your attorney that you want to get out of the transaction as expediently and cleanly as possible. Do whatever is necessary to recoup your investment. If your attorney advises you to hire an engineer to accomplish this, then do so. If the attorney can get you out without it, go for it. I would not trust anything that the builder or anyone working for him is telling you at this time. There is nothing normal or “just fine” about that foundation.
Please keep us apprised. We’re rooting for you.
Thanks for the support - will definitely keep it updated.
We have already spoken to a lawyer about getting out of the contract, but the only way we can is if they breach it (or we just walk away from $80k). He’s looking for a few angles right now.
I spoke to the builder - and he admitted it was worse than he thought. He said he is having a structural engineer come out and “drill a hole to look at the soil to see what happened, and go from there.” I’m not sure what that means or if it’s good, but it’s better than the last response I got. I think he changed his tune when I spoke to him again about it - and asked some of the questions in this thread.
Also I’m hiring a 3rd party foundation / concrete repair place to come check it out. Once they do, I’m sure they will recommend a good “next step” - whether it’s hiring an engineer or just ripping everything up and doing it over. We also have the city inspector coming out to do a 4way inspection soon, and we know him fairly well - nice guy. Hopefully he’ll have some things to say about it as well.
With all the concrete problems we’re having, it’s ironic that they’re out laying the driveway concrete today (it snowed 14" the last 2 days, and it’s about 20 degrees F outside). Can’t imagine that is a good environment to lay concrete. However, I did tell the builder I wanted them to use a different concrete contractor for the driveway and they obliged. So there’s that =)
Will keep everyone updated.
Quick question,
If I hire my own engineer / concrete guy to come look at this mess - am I legally bound to notify the builder that someone is looking at it? (he owns the lot and construction loan, we just have an $85k deposit down on it).
Adam,
Does your contract have any references to any building codes or specifications and does your city or county have building codes? As a side note there is no building code I know that allows concrete to be poured on a 20 degree day, unless your inside a heated enclosure. If your contractor is required to build according to a standard code, sounds like you have several instances where he has breached the contract.
Please take these responses seriously.
This is the mother of all structural defects. You have numerous defects some not highlighted already.
Just a quick update, found some interesting things out today:
So I told the builder I would like to be at the site when his “engineer” reviews the problem. He assured me that he would give me a heads up.
However, after waiting a couple days and not hearing back - I took things into my own hands today, and called a local inspector / concrete guy to come check it out. I told the builder that I was bringing my own guy to check it out, and he tells me that his engineer had already been to the site (how convenient). Of course I got after him for not letting me know - but here’s the kicker: he will not authorize a 3rd party inspector to come look at it (seriously, how shady can someone be?!) He owns the lot and the construction loan (standard new construction REPC) - so I am going to have my lawyer review the contract and see if he can legally restrict getting my own inspectors. I highly doubt he can.
And by dumb luck, I found the contractor who actually poured the concrete (long story). He no longer works with the builder (for reasons below), but he voluntarily met me at the site and had some very interesting things to say about the job. He apologized for the issues I was having, and said that the reason it was cracking was because the builder did not prep or pact down the soil correctly (the excavation contractor) and knew the concrete was going to have problems - there are “voids” of soil below the concrete and that’s the reason they move. He informed the builder the soil compact was inadequate for concrete and to fix the issue before laying concrete, but the builder wanted to continue anyway to save money and stay on schedule. It was a big gamble on the builder’s end, and came back to bite him.
I’m in literally awe that this builder is still in business - how can someone stay in business for this long and cut so many corners? Won’t this stuff eventually catch up to him?
I haven’t received the report from his “engineer” yet, but I have a feeling it’s going to come back at the builder’s favor. We’ll see.
I was able to find the city inspector’s contact info, and emailed him the pictures and videos, so hopefully that gets me somewhere.
We’re not lawyers of course so we can’t comment on legal issues too much.
Ask your lawyer about that.
Personal opinion- I would be upfront about notifying the builder that you want to bring in outside experts. If the builder balks then that becomes part of the record, which is important if this goes to a lawsuit.
Concrete can be poured in “cold” temperatures but changes have to made to the mix, the pour itself and curing etc.
If this is the same concrete contractor that poured the slab under discussion I would be worried.
More info here…
Pouring Concrete in Cold Weather - Can Your Pour in Winter? - Concrete Network
Still have not heard back from the builder about his “engineer’s” findings.
We meet with the lawyer on Monday to discuss how to proceed.
In the meantime, I found the developer’s plot map and all the ordinances / regulations about pouring concrete in the development / area.
I took a screenshot of the relevant section: screenshot
I don’t really know what any of that means, but we’ll be bringing that with us to the attorney.
wish you guys the best!
Adam,
The first part basically says the contractor had to remove the top 12 inches of soil and compact it back at 95% of its maximum density, which is determined by the Proctor test. If the soil was dry he had to add water to reach maximum density. To verify you have reached the 95% limit some on-site testing must be performed, hopefully by an independent 3-party. Ask for copies of the test results, I bet he can’t find it.
You should be very concerned. Those cracks appear to be differentialy settled (at different heights). There could be expansive soils beneath that slab. Better stop and have some concrete core samples taken to expose the soil/fill underneath the slab and have them tested by a qualified geotechnical (soils) engineer. He should be able to recommend remedial measures to correct the problem.
I must be old school OR forgetful. I’ve never run into problems accessing a house under construction. Most often the builder is NOT on site. So I’ll stop by when hes not there OR after hours OR on weekends, etc.
I grew up in a foundation family AND later in life built residential and commercial buildings. Been inspecting for over 30 yrs and doing expert witness over 20 yrs.
Like Randy Mayo, Chuck Evans and many others have stated … What you got does not look anywhere close to a little bit wrong. You’ve got issues. Your attorney should be doing whatever he can to stop construction. You should be at the local code guys office with pics, etc. I have gone around a builder, architect and engineer and got the job “red-tagged” / construction halted for stuff like this.
The farther it goes, the more costly.
Also look for consumer groups like HADD that may have info on the builder or other help.
…and talking to the “Head Honcho” not the guy in the field that let that crap fly in the first place!
I have poured many floors in hot and cold weather and after 35 years of building never had that happen once on any of my builds and that includes working in Minnesota, Vermont, New York, New Hampshire, Massachusetts and a few Southern states.
I only looked at the first picture to know you got an issue. This crack is significant and they don’t get better with age.