Nice to see Western Traditions moving east. 
http://www.worldsoldestrodeo.com/
This could turn into another debate… LOL.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0618clay0618.html
I knew you would like it. Be carefull going to work, nice to see you can handle a lot of bull.
[size=1]Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do[/size]
Will:
Any good trades/professional person should be willing to pay for the standards that govern their vocation. Having sat on a few committees/ boards that produce standards, I have seen the time (a fair amount of it donated by some of the best in the particular sector), energy and costs it takes to produce and update a standard as practices/materials/equipment continually change/improve within the sector.
For example: In Canada, the national plumbing, electrical, building and fire codes cost $200-$300 each. They are re-issued every 5 years with annual updates/ammendments being sent to a person with a “bought” copy (if you register with the standards authority). For the practicing trades individual, this amounts to a cost of $40-$60/year (as most only operate in one specialty). Not really a lot of $$$…an hour or two of revenue which is written off as expense.
For a home inspector/engineer/architect, we may need 2-3-4 codes plus a number of code referenced standards…all costing us maybe $200-$400/year on average…not a significant amount for the $$$ ($75-$100+ per hour) we wish to generate in revenue and maybe help save a life or our butts from something serious that we otherwise might miss during an inspection.
These standards are not cheap to produce. If as practioners, we do not wish to individually support the codes/standards process, maybe we can have the government carry all the costs (instead of part as is now the practice here) and have the codes free to everyone. This would increase taxes but spread the costs to everyone who benefits from these documents that may have saved them from loss of life, personal injury or financial loss.
ps: I find, in general, most want the government out of our lives in both regulation and taxes…but when something screws up, we blame the gov. for not having a regulation or program to take care of it. This is a complex society, becoming more complex as we move forward and as such new laws will have to be generated. Some examples: Who is going to rule on cloning of humans, selling of organs, euthanasia, stem cell issues, abandonment/care/warehousing of the aged, etc. without much research/consultation at significant costs. Laws cost $$$$…to generate and to enforce…the free market doesn’t regulate the aforementioned and, in fact, may/will lead to the worst in us coming out- There is now a significant business of purchasing organs, especially kidneys, from the poor in southeast Asia.
Hello Jim,
I was nice meeting you in Orlando. Is there any more news on you bringing the level 1 course to Orlando in march/April
I personally do not think 25.00 per standard is too much money to invest in your business.
Kevin
I was thinking the same thing. I will be putting in my order later today
As always Mr Bell. That is a good point well put.
HI Carl,
The last I heard is that they are still working on a date for March or April. I will post it on the board when we have a confirmed date.
I could be wrong, but last I checked, there are electrical components in residential construction (Standard for Infrared Inspection of Electrical Systems & Rotating Equipment)
In addition, the term building envelope can apply to residential contruction as well, right? (Standard for Infrared Inspection of Building Envelopes)
Also, don’t we have WDO/WDI in residential construction? (Standard for Infrared Inspections to Detect Pests and Pest Related Damage)
So, to suggest that these standards to not pertain to HI’s is just ignorance.
Question: What procedures to you take if you encounter what you believe to be a “hot” breaker in a main panel? And please don’t say “it looks hot in my camera, so you should have an electrician come out and further evaluate.” If you are going to be using Infrared Technology in your Home Inspections, than you better be properly trained to interpret your findings.
We all have different opinions on how to use IR technology in HI work. I’m under the strong belief that if you are going to use it, then get trained to use it properly. Everything about using an IR camera in a home inspection goes beyond the industry standards. So, there has to be other industry standards for the HI’s to reference.
If you are going to use the camera just to point and shoot then disclaim everything you see, then why use it?
Sorry for the rant…I need another cup of coffee 
Kevin
Thanks Greg
Forget the coffee and hit the hard stuff after that rant!!
I agree with will;-)
The same should apply to HI orgs agreements, marketing info, along with stuff on members only areas, etc. where the only inspectors that pay an owner of a HI $s for can have access to, and use.
Same thing should apply to IR training for home inspectors.
I even believe HI should provide inspections for free, just think of what the customer could buy with that money if we didn’t charge for an inspection.:mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Suggest this to obamma,I bet he will agree, and make it a part of his campaign to beat hillery:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Nah…try and stay away from that stuff
Kevin
I agree exactly .
Mentoring and education is very very important.
Unfortunately we get many home inspectors who have very little of both coming into this industry.
I am taking every bit of education I can find on IR training.
I do think some of the courses do not supply much in the direction for examining a home .
We need more courses planned and directed directly for home inspectors.
Mentoring would be great unfortunately we at this time do not have enough well trained home inspectors to do this.
…Cookie
</IMG>
I think you and dnutts are missing the fact that some standards are government produced and often public record and some standards are produced by orgs such as UL, ASME, AGA, etc.
Standard development is a long process and those producing the standard have every right to charge for their work product. JMHO
We all want things free. How about you give me a free inspection or two.
What ASTM or ASNT standard do you reference in your reports, when doing a
home inspection? (None)
What infrared course did ASTM or ASNT create for home inspectors? (None)
We all believe in proper training, that is not the issue. We do not have to be
afraid of abandoning the ASTM or ASNT standards because the HI industry
has never used them to begin with.
A Level III ASNT certified thermographer cannot use an IR camera as a home
inspector. They don’t know how, just ask them. The ASNT never certified
a single Level III thermographer for doing home inspections. That course was
created before infrared cameras were used by home inspectors.
The IR camera will not turn us into HVAC specialist, Electrical specialist, or Mold
specialist… those all require further training and sometimes an approved license.
But the IR camera will help a home inspector find problems related to these
fields, and more. **
Inspectors should verify and report their findings as they always have.
**
If I find a hot breaker by touching it or with an IR camera, I still have to have proper
training to understand what I should do next, we all agree with that. If I find
moisture that is conducive to mold with my eyes or with an IR camera, I still have
to have proper training to understand what I should do next, we all agree with that…etc…
Proper training with an IR camera must relate to the field in which the person is going
to use it. A medical thermographer is not going to take a course on building science.
So why do inspectors think that courses that were not designed for them are the
path our industry should take? Why do home inspectors claim certain standards
are part of their IR training and then never use those standards?
If you use ASTM or ASNT standards, show me.?
If not, then you agree with me. You just did not realize it.
We can all find standards for electrical inspection within the ASTM, but I’m not going
to claim them if I do not actually use them while doing an inspection. The ASTM
has standards regarding pressure testing windows for moisture penetration. But
who sets up a timed and pressure regulated water blasting array on each window,
during their home inspections?
I am all for proper training… and the proper SoP… yes indeed. There are lots
of courses coming into the market place for inspectors now… but those that claim
their course follows ASTM or ASNT standards are just blowing smoke at
inspectors, who will never use those standards to do a home inspection.
Guess what? The FLIR-ITC building science course was not certified by the
ASNT. Why did FLIR allow that? Because they saw the need to create something
more relevant to the need that has developed for today’s infrared scans in building
applications and was not present 10 years ago.
If someone wants to take advanced IR training, I think that is a great idea. But if I
had to choose between someone who had advanced IR training and someone who
had basic IR training, but was very strong in their construction background and
a seasoned inspector… I would choose the inspector with experience over the
one who had taken lots of unrelated IR classes and was short on inspector experience.
It takes much longer to become a good inspector and be properly trained in all
the various fields of our industry, than it takes to use the IR camera.
We do not measure the temperature of a moisture spot with an IR camera, we just
find it and report it… So no matter how advanced your training is on all the formulas
that you can calculate with the IR temperature read outs… you are still no more advanced
at finding the wet spot, because the temperature of the wet spot is irrelevant in the home
inspection application.
Regarding the idea of paying for standards… It is a non issue, because I do not know
of a single inspector who pays money for standards each time they issue a home
inspection report. If anyone wants to endorse the idea then show me your receipts.
I think we should also have training and standards for using other type of photo equipment.
Yes, seeing things that one has never seen before requires knowledge to understand what one is seeing but some have to realize that the cost of this knowledge will be too high in the HI market to sell
Remember this is the age of the internet, not the $100 high school text book
rlb
Good point. I recommend that inspectors pay for the training they actually need, so the IR camera can
start feeding their family.