New Tech Note: Top Ten Myths About Thermal Imaging Cameras

I never saw nor did I claim that insulation had anything to do with air sealing. They are two completely different issues. They are two completely different tools that do different things and provide different information. Your statement comparing IR of a ceiling with a flashlight on a vent was incorrect and misleading.

If you are suddenly a BPI guy and do blower door tests, good for you. They have a definite place. I have NEVER claimed that a simple IR scan is the same as a full energy audit with a blower door. But to totally slander the use of IR because you don’t have it and use something else is wrong.

Both are valuable tools that provide important information to properly trained individuals that can benefit the homeowner. Slandering or making inaccurate comparisons does not benefit either.

What needs to happen as far as public education, around here at least, is for someone to stop EVERY contractor - HVAC to windows to insulation to radiant barriers - from advertising FREE FREE FREE energy audits as a loss leader to get in and sell their products. Whether you provide IR or HERS or BPI or whatever, this practice undermines the value of REAL energy audits by an unbiased consultant on any level. There is a window contractor that advertises heavily on tv here with a completely made up “thermal image” of their new windows compared to the old windows. The general public has no way to know this is Infrared picture is complete bs. And it hurts those of us using these tool legitimately to help our clients.

“Seeing a leak” is meaningless.

You have no concept of the overall picture which is why you do not understand how ridiculous your arguments are.

Clients can die if they take your advice…inspectors can kill innocent people if they do the same.

Sealing the air leaks (even those you cannot see with your IR camera) is the first step prior to adding insulation. This is basic knowledge for all apprentice contractors…but has somehow escaped you.

Sealing air leaks is something YOU DO NOT DO until you know what the air exchange rate currently is. Sealing air leaks could create a requirement for mechanical ventilation to keep the combustion appliances from backdrafting and killing the occupants…but since this cannot be seen on your IR camera, it has nothing to do with your scam…er…(excuse me) “energy audits”.

You wrote your course and starting selling your “education” shortly after you purchased your new camera and there is nothing wrong with you showing people where to find the “on/off” button. Just get yourself a little more training and understanding before you move into energy auditing.

Not if the air exchange rate goes below the required ventilation!

An energy audit can still improve the efficiency of the building without messing with the ventilation. In this case the blower door is useless.
However a blower door is required to determine what the actual ventilation rate is.

And yes, changing your ventilation rates can cause indoor air quality problems that could kill someone! However, thermal imaging is not part of the work scope. It is just a diagnostic tool to locate and document the location of the issues. The infrared thermographer is not going to get out the caulking gun in repair anything. That’s up to the repairing contractor to ensure proper safety practices are adhered to.

I guess we’re not going to get past “my stuff’ s better than yours”!

You are mistaken. When the uncontrolled air exchange rate goes below what is required, mechanical ventilation is installed to provide a controlled air exchange.

Until the air entering and leaving the structure is controlled, insulation simply acts as an air filter. You will actually see the accumulation of dirt trapped in insulation, much like the filter in the return air system, from the air leaking through it. Insulating over an air leak does nothing to reduce energy loss.

On extremely hot and extremely cold days…an IR camera is handy (but not necessary) to observe the insulation in the exterior wall but effective wall insulation must still be in contact with all six sides to deter air movement, which the IR camera will not detect. It’s nice to have…but far from being essential or from being a major part of an analysis, as some are being told.

If we do not proactively work to ensure that consumers actually gain (in less energy use/lower utility bills/better comfort) from our advice, we will have no market. Camera selling scams piss me off, for they falsely build up the expectation of the inspector who - in turn - does the same thing to the unsuspecting client.

An energy audit, among many other things, should be able to project actual savings from recommended retrofits as well as provide estimates for labor and material costs. Clients should be able to compare the cost of improvements to the expected return to determine if they can and should make the investment. A thermal image of a missing patch of insulation is meaningless.

Where the hell are you coming up with this!? I detect it on almost every single house I inspect!

I see it with the camera, then go up and take a picture if it not happening!

I have been through lawsuits for my clients where engineers from the construction company verified my verifications!

I have municipal building code inspectors used my data and require contractors to correct the inadequate insulation job!

I have no earthly clue where you’re coming from!


The ceiling has missing insulation (0%) and far wall is not in contact with where it is supposed to be in contact with.

Inside view…

You have zero IR training or experience and pretend to teach
us. Now you understand why your IR postings draw fire
from those who do indeed operating an IR business. A wise
man would want to listen to those who have experience.

It seems that you cycle in a predictable pattern. You came
against the CMI designation for a long time, until you finally
qualified and achieved it. I watched your comments and
attitude toward CMI evolve over time, because I am the
Executive Director of Master Inspector Certification Board.

Relax and enjoy the process.

Air sealing causes CO issues and gas/oil fired appliances must be tested prior to and after weatherization.

Only if the homeowner wants to fork out the extra $$$. Otherwise, the air sealing part is done.

Addressing inadequate insulation would be the next step. Then re-testing to determine proper ventilation still exists as insulation slows air flow.

More than that…combustion devices must be tested under worse case conditions…that is…with the dryer and all exhaust fans running…and with all rooms with positive air pressure closed off. That is the baseline.

Air sealing, indeed, can create serious problems which is why a blower door measurement…and not IR thermography (as previously stated by someone else on this thread) should be used to find and measure air leaks prior to adding insulation.

The inspector who determines insufficient ventilation to be present, either before or after the recommended work, must include mechanical air ventilation in his report and a certified contractor must not provide the air seal without it.

I sure don’t want to throw a wrench in the process James, but a thermal imaging camera can detect the back drafting effects of these appliances probably as well as anything! That only covers only spillage however.

Carbon monoxide testing is an ongoing test during the process and the ultimate testing device (not the blower door).

My statement regarding containment on all six sides of the insulation, and the IR camera’s inability to determine it, has to do with exterior walls on the first. second floor…not attic walls. As you can see from your regular photo, the insulation is in contact with the air barriers only on 5 sides.

Again, this is not the thermographer’s position in the process.
We are drifting…

Indeed, it is not…and claims that an IR camera does 50% of the work in an energy audit (or words to that effect) is false. That is my point, too.

I can’t argue with that.

Not the percentages, but the fact that it is nowhere close to 100% from either direction.

Your blower door is off during the worse case test.

No, your right and I agree 100%. I was just throwing that out there for someone that actually wants to spend 8 hours in an attic finding every insulation issue…then I guess it would be possible. Just super impractical.

JJ

John,

Here is the link from the DOE referencing CO issues and how dangerous they can be. I do not believe they use the word “death”, but everyone knows CO can be a killer.

http://www.energysavers.gov/your_home/energy_audits/index.cfm/mytopic=11170

JJ

Jason, and just being facetious! :twisted: :mrgreen:

See Post# 25

No access to much of it.

Visual is not much help sometimes even if you can get there!

No one ever said to do an air leak inspection with IR, prior
to adding insulation.