No Shut Offs Under the Sink?

[tglaze (Thomas Glaze)]

@mwilles

This is something I would definitely call out.

As a defect? Although I don’t use that term in my reporting vocabulary…

[lhenderson2 (Lon Henderson, CMI)]

While I consider it a minor crime and understand why some of you don’t call it out as a defect, around here, our AHJs require them so I call it out as a defect when I don’t see them.

[bcawhern1 (Brian Cawhern, CMI)]

@ruecker

if it is typical and expected in an area to have them, than yes, I would call it out.

I agree unless there are other shut-off’s as James stated.

@jmckee

common practice for the shutoffs to be in the basement or at a manifold

Code police (2018 IRC) says

[jmckee (James McKee)]

You only printed part of what i said…You left out the at one time part…that was significant…are you expecting someone to move all of those valves in older homes???

[bcawhern1 (Brian Cawhern, CMI)]

@jmckee

are you expecting someone to move all of those valves in older homes???

No, not what I meant. Sorry. I edited my statement for clarity.

@bcawhern1

I agree unless there are other shut-off’s as James stated.

@jmckee

common practice for the shutoffs to be in the basement or at a manifold

[mbeauchemin (Marc-Andre Beauchemin, (CMI), (CPI), interNACHI, interNACHI Quebec,A)]

Good question.
Was not an obligation and if a contractor can save 10$, he won’t install it.

[blinn (Bob Linn, CMI®)]

@tglaze

To each there own, but if it is not required by code in a particular jurisdiction, is it still a deficiency in your thinking?

Following the jurisdiction can be tricky for some. My building dept does not require CO detectors (even with gas appliances), water heater drain pans, proper egress, etc. Of course I’m going to recommend these things. Just because it’s not required doesn’t mean you shouldn’t comment or mark it as deficient IMO. Regarding shut-offs, they make my report as a minor defect or FYI.

[tglaze (Thomas Glaze)]

@blinn

Following the jurisdiction can be tricky for some. My building dept does not require CO detectors (even with gas appliances), water heater drain pans, proper egress, etc. Of course I’m going to recommend these things. Just because it’s not required doesn’t mean you shouldn’t comment or mark it as deficient IMO.

I think a few folks took my comment as a “general” statement regarding anything not being required by code. It was specifically meant as to water faucet supply valves not being present under a sink. I agree with your statement regarding other things that might not be required by code, but are best to be installed for safety reasons.

[rkenney (Robert (Bob) Kenney, CMI® MD Lic.# 31044)]

With PEX or polybutylene the shut off valves for each fixture will be in a remote location (distribution manifold) and still comply with P2903.9.3. “Shutoff valves shall be required on each fixture supply pipe . . .” as each hose from the manifold typically only supplies one fixture.

[lmorrison (Larry Morrison, CMI)]

I’m playing catch-up, so if this has been covered… as Robert mentions, is this on a manifold (“Man-a-Bloc”) system? if so I would not expect to have shut-off valves at/near the fixture(s). They would be at the the manifold.

[kleonard (Kevin Leonard, CPI/CMI)]

I equate shut-off valves for sink fixtures to a required wall switch for the dishwasher, sure it’s convenient for the installer, but code or not, it really serves no other purpose, besides we’re home inspectors, not code inspectors.

[mgoldenberg (Marc Goldenberg, Inspector Lic # HI1365 Mold Assessor Lic #1573)]

Gotta have them down here.
Insurance carriers want pics proving it or no insurance.

[ryoung7 (ROBERT YOUNG, CMI)]

Evening, Taylor.
Welcome to the message board.
Domestic potable water supply Shutoff valves ‘are required’ as well as a means to maintenance them.

Observation: No visible hot or cold domestic potable water supply shutoff valves under the kitchen sink.
Recommend disclosure from the vender if Domestic potable water supply Shutoff valves are present. If unknown, recommend a licensed plumbing contractor assess if Domestic potable water supply Shutoff valves are present and the location.
If no Domestic potable water supply Shutoff valves are found, install Domestic potable water supply Shutoff valves for the hot and cold water lines under the kitchen sink.
Limitations: No visible hot or cold domestic potable water supply shutoff valves under the kitchen sink.