Maybe, but I bet it’s hard to prove. Were they using a large missile test under the '88 code?
I wasn’t contradicting at all. I was making a statement. I personally would not call all homes in Palm Beach County that where reroofed in 1998, actually let me correct that, any to comply. Local AHJ inspectors don’t just do drive by final inspections. They do uplift test along with other items. You actually have to have a ladder set up and secured for the inspector to access the roof. Product compliance is based on installation. When they test them are they installed? What about the MDCA shingle roofs (at least that’s what the package in the shed said. They looked almost the same except newer) I have seen installed with staples? Do they comply? The insurance companies go by permit.
They were not testing for large missile until 1993, but many products were accepted as " alternate materials" under the 94 sfbc.
That is exactly what I have been trying to convey. If there is no permit, as far as I am concerned, for me to mark anything else but no information available, would be committing an act of fraud.
Throwing things against the wall to see what sticks…may land you in serious trouble. With my new, relaxed attitude since moving, I have even less time for such nonsense.
Guy, I seriously think Nick should give every single person who posted on this thread a gift!
No a single word use to degrade another, just some seriously professional dialogue. And the “other” group didn’t jump in with the typical banter…
My God is this refreshing…Thanks my Florida brothers…it is awesome to see this…
That has always been my opinion as well but it seems many do just toss it. They do not seem to understand by tossing it they are stating that they believe it to be true.
The only way anyone could be done for fraud on the 1802, would be by stating something along the lines of: full hurricane protection and providing pictures of same, on a house that has no protection.
You can’t be prosecuted for fraud on an interpretation of a question, unless that question is posed in such a clear and concise way that everyone, with reasonable knowledge, would answer it in the same way!When there is no clear and concise definition of how to answer the questions on the form, how could anyone say what is the right interpretation? Unless and until the OIR come up with such a document, it would be impossible for anyone to be found guilty of fraud because of the way they interpret the questions on this form!
(OK yes you can be prosecuted for anything, but no lawyer in their right mind would try and prosecute this, and no judge with half a brain would even consider it. The standard to prove fraud is set high for a reason!)
I concur Russ this is really nice to see. It actually can be done…
congratulations to all!
We are not talking about interpretation.
Let’s go to the original post.
The homeowner told the inspector no permit was pulled. The inspector verified this. If the inspector marks that the roof is in compliance with the FBC, for example, the very first thing the code says is that permits must be pulled for a re-roof. Therefore, everyone is aware that this installation isn’t code compliant.
As someone said earlier, the insurance companies want permit dates. I tell my clients to get them if I can’t. If they can’t, they may find themselves paying for a new roof.
It is one of the reasons I sleep so well…I don’t have to worry about what anyone else may say. Show me the permit or find someone else.
Well according to your INTERPRETATION, if it was as cut and dried as you say, the question would be a lot simpler:
Was the whole roof done in accordance with either the FBC or the SFBC
YES , No ,
If so what is the permit number?
But it is not, they give you two other options as well, and in all of the recognized courses we are told as to what other proof may be acceptable.
I’m glad you sleep well at night, so do I, but not at the expense of my customers, or because of some smug sense that my narrow interpretation of how to answer a question is the only way to view it! If there is an alternate way to get them credits, I do it, honestly and ethically. Then it is up to the insurance company, as to whether they accept that evidence or not!
The form is set up to allow alternative means of compliance, and insurance companies do give discounts, when they are given good enough reason to. Even the companies doing the reinspections accepted alternatives and people got to keep discounts applied with that alternate information!
And I have yet to find one who has accepted the “alternate”. Had this happen six months ago. fortunately, the Clients ended up not buying the home. And incidentally,that homeowner had to get the roof “re-permitted” at a cost of $2,500.00.
Everyone is free to do it any way you want, but, I wouldn’t feel right getting my client a discount for three months, then, to have it taken away, especially when I knew it was going to happen. I would rather suggest to them to correct the issue in the first place. Just my “smug” way of doing things. 
I exhaust all means of research previous to the inspection including build fax and calling cities or searching on their web pages. If I found no permits and they don’t qualify I explain to them the outcome. In cases where absolutely no discount is to be awarded (previous phone call to Agent to make sure since I’m not one) I just honestly tell them they don’t need it. I know I loose some $ but I rather they call me back when they retrofit or refer me to someone else or let their agents know I acted in good will. Also it is better that way than showing up and loose on my gas money and time or have to issue a refund. Some cities will give info but others require a fee in which case I direct the homeowner to the page and/or physical address. In any case I want to provide the most accurate info for each client. If they still want the report I would mark like you said.
Please explain how and or more importantly WHY this could or would happen?
What areas do you cover?
There are more discounts than just roof covering. How could you know they don’t qualify for roof deck attachment or roof to wall without visiting the home and entering the attic?