I always thought that scruples were things you put on your salad.:roll:
Ray, self reported numbers may indeed be inflated, but there are very few other stats to use. If we use Nick’s formula (number of homes sold, times percentage having an inspection, divided by his figure of 77,000) you get an average of 160. That sounds low to me, but it does account for many newbies who aren’t doing many.
100 inspections in a year is less than 2 a week. I think most newbies that are going to be around for year 2 are doing approximately that. 150-200 is a reasonable expectation for Year 2 (2-4 per week) but I would say it may be low for those who will be around to see Year 3.
For third year inspectors, 250-300 is a reasonable goal for Year 3 (5-6 per week) and can be accomplished without much difficulty.
That averages out to slightly less than 250, but if you target even the low end, you will have accomplished 500 inspections in 3 years, combine that with required CE and the 448 hours required to start up (for some) in TX and you have a CMI in 3 years who did not even meet his own goals in terms of inspections.
Incidentally, I began discussing the CMI formula in response to Nick’s stated desire to have it reflect the top 3-5% of the industry. I think in order to do that, we need to raise the bar a bit.
John Mac, the CMI is a marketing tool. It will be marketed to Realtors (just check out the title of this thread - which is way off topic now, sorry). I can’t think of any way but a qualitative peer review to weed out softball reports. That suggestions has drawn a lot of fire just concerning the verification of CE credits, so I am not sure it will ever be expanded to include report review.
A study I read back in the late 90’s said that the average inspector performed 324 inspections per year after 3 years in business. I think that study, or information came from ASHI, but I may be incorrect.
What is your source for this data?
Joe M.
You toss around a whole lot of information on your threads…statistics, studies, averages, etc…but you have no sources to refer to. Are you pulling all of these from the same colon?
My source for what consitutes a reasonable goal?
Well since “reasonable” is a subjective term, it is open for discussion, but I am looking at it from teh perspective of a successful inspector.
Personal experience, for starters, lead me to these numbers. My business plan was/is actually far more agressive than that, but I watered it down to what could reasonably be targeted for a full-time inspector who is intent on remaining in business to see years 4, 5, 6, etc. (but perhaps not agressively marketing, or still in the learning/growth stages of business).
The average inspection price in nearly every forum I have seen tends to center around $300, depending on geography. That equates to $30K of gross income (pre-taxes, expenses, etc) for every 100 inspections performed.
Year 1 - $30K. OK I am starting up, and even if I fall short of that…welll, it’s a start up.
Year 2 - better do better than year 1, and make money. 3 inspections a week is not really reaching for the stars, but replresents growth…so I selected 3-4 per week. Again, obtainable for most inspectors who will be around to see Year 3.
Year 3 - the average of inspectors responding (presumably established inspectors) reported 250+ inspections annually. So, it makes sens eto make that the goal since year 3 is no longer start up phase - you should be established and continuing to grow.
I can’t speak for all inspectors, but I don’t think I would remain in a business where I topped out at $60K gross income (200 inspections).
I cite sources where they are applicable. Stats, studies and averages all have the reference source where appopriate.
The previous ASHI survey is the source for the average number of inspections. SBA and BLS numbers are posted right on their sites. Information regarding statistacal anaylsis of the inaccuracies of the SBA reported failure rates can be found via a Google search - stick to the scholarly sources.
I suppose for casual conversation, your thoughts could be of interest to someone…but for crying out loud…don’t keep showing up with your pocket knife to a gun fight and expect to prevail when all you have are your thoughts with nothing to support them.:roll:
Most folks, when stating an opinion, reflect it as such (IMO, IMHO, etc). When you state something as fact, you should be able to back it up.
I see…so now there is a definable criteria for “reasonable goal” for each year of an inspection business?
Please share your source!
Also, I woul like to see the verification for Nick’s math (of which he has “convinced himself”) yet you are so willing to swallow unchallenged and unsupported.
Fellows
You’ve got to slow down.
This is another whole topic of conversations, but Nick is right, only five percent of businesses make it after 5 years (based on stats), the number being slightly higher for Franchises I believe. I also believe that 20% of inspectors represent 80% of the inspections. I also believe the number of veterans leaving the market every year as the baby boomers age, which probably represents most inspectors in other associations, will be more than 5%, leaving large market openings for newer inspectors in the coming years.
Moving on, as far as the CMI, a master inspector cannot be a master without experience. Education alone won’t cut it!
To simplify the formula, could mean using “Verifiable Hours” and well as “Education Hours”.
What is a VH? It is the documented hours of inspection time. I know inspectors that only do one inspection a day, but spend far more time on the inspection than those that do three to four inspections a day. Many of these have niche markets, do expert witness work, a lot of code research etc. All these can be documented and go a long way to enhance the experience level of an inspector.
While inspections are critical, I believe they should be looked at in hours so that every inspector is accounted for.
As far as realtors, not wanting nit pickers, I believe you are wrong in a sense. If they did not trust a handful in inspectors, why does a handful get to control 80% of the markets?
If an inspector is so busy, that he tells his realtor to go jump in the river, why then are most of these guys only charging the same as every other inspector!
As far as realtor qualifications, why are we not the same? Veteran inspectors today rarely attend training sessions because they really have nothing in common with the new inspectors. Achieving a 250 inspection limit is old news and not anything to brag about any more. It was 10 years ago. Today’s veterans are bored for the most part. Just ask them!
I recently read an article that stated that over 50-50 %, if I remember correctly, of people live close or within the vicinity of the ocean. Why not have a “CERTIFIED OCEANFRONT SPECIALIST”!! The knowledge needed for these buildings is again far more than the regular cookie cutter home.
In all, there are so many designations for home inspectors needed for aging experienced inspectors that keeps them motivated and yes, helps them sell the services at a fee that meets their experience.
Just look at the upcoming classes for a national conference. I don’t think the speakers nor the sessions have changed and the interest from a veteran perspective is most probably minimal if not zero, unless they need their credit hours.
Change is inevitable, it will either work with you or against you, but it will work on you!
Back to you James!!
Michael
PS ASHI’S last survey had the average number of inspections at 264 per inspector and the average fee below $275 I believe. I can find the exact number if you wish.
There is no point in further debate or discussion on this topic. Nick has convinced himself of something and will manipulate numbers to “convince himself” he is right.
Good luck with the "Congratualtory Medicore Inspector " desigantion.
Perhaps you may wish to consider your own good advice.
John McKenna has presented a few questions to you that you may wish to address before starting yet another thread on this topic.
Again, a popular misconcpetion, with no supporting evidence.
The SBA in determining this statistic (which is decades old, by the way) counted any business that was not under the same name, with teh same owner as when it registered to be “failed”.
Would anyone buy a failing business? No. Yet if you sold your successful business, the SBA calls it “failed” for the purposes of this number. What about if you started out as “Mike’s Home Inspections” and grew into “Mike’s Home and Commercial Inspections” or “Mike and Company” when you added more inspectors? Again a “failed” business according to the SBA.
It is a popular misconcption.
A study by an Ohio propfessor, tracking restaurant success rates (a notoriously high failure rate) found that the failure raite was dramatically over stated. Actually totalling about 60% in 3 years (not smiles and roses, but also not the 80-90% often thrown around for start up restaurants, either).
Year 5 is typically thought to be the threshold for a small business and the success rate is better than 5%.
And even if it WAS 5%, we are talking about a desigantion that allows for CMI to be reached in years 1,2, and 3 by many inspectors. Far surpassing Nick;s stated desire to target the top 5% with this desigantion.
One would think, if one was a businessman, selling something (logos), one would have what it takes (in writing) to buy one before they started selling them, unreal to say the least.
And I’m not talking about you Mike R.
For facts regarding inspectons after 3 years, you can check the ASHI survey John quoted - I am sure someone has the data available.
As far as what is reasonable…well, I can go on what I and other inspectors I know have done.
RR, Joe Hagerty, myself, and Dale Duffy (among others) have posted or exchanged annual inspection rates with me via email previously, and all have far exceeded the watered down goals listed.
For example, I am in the first third of Year 3 and, if my projections are accurate, will pass the goals stated by the end of February.
Again, this is more inforamtion and verification than is offered by those in opposition who merely “convince themselves” of facts.
Michael said:
As far as realtors, not wanting nit pickers, I believe you are wrong in a sense. If they did not trust a handful in inspectors, why does a handful get to control 80% of the markets?
My Response:
Over 98% of the Realtors I know (hundreds) want the house to sell
and desire an easy inspection more than a nit picky inspection.
Are you in touch with the real world?
Take a poll and let the inspectors tell you first hand.
BTW… Michael…
What is your experience as a home inspector?
BTW… Michael
Starting a thread on this forum about CMI and then
asking that thread to slow down is an “oxymoron”.
Keep asking and good luck.
As anyone who has worked with them knows, once can make statistics say whatever one wants them to say. Manipulating data is so common these days, grade school kids can do it.
When you speak in terms of the “average home inspector” you cannot use an ASHI statistic for…as we all know…the “average home inspector” does not belong to ASHI. Their total membership does not represent a fifth of the total number of people in America performing home inspections. Their statistics represent what is reported by the few of their actual members who participate.
Another problem with the term “average home inspector” is that there are a variety of types of “averages”. There is the rural inspector who competes with others for much fewer home sales by county than the urban inspector. There is the full-time, the part-time, the semi-retired…and then there are the locker room guys who always have a story, a number, a concern that tops eveybody else’s.
In the debate that surrounds the CMI program, I can assure you that those vendors who are preparing their wares to market to this new source of revenue (in the making) have done their homework. They know, from various multiple sources of raw numbers, what their needs are to make this a profitable program.
Mike Rowan is not putting up with all of this aggravation and frustration without the prospect of profitting from it and he knows (or at least has studied and has a ballpark idea) what he needs to do to attract a market for his wares. He knows that a check and a promise to become a CMI is not going to create a very big market for Inspection Depot and he also knows that there are a myriad of educational providers waiting for him to drop the puck.
He has selected a staff and, IMO, is building up the courage to announce his plan with the hopes that it will appeal to enough folks to create a market. And he is doing this with real data…real numbers…not his opinion or “reasonable expectations”.
Fight the fight…but fight it with fact. That is the point I am trying to make.
AH! Now we have finally arived at the truth. It’s all about profit.
And since you post has no facts - just a few suppositions, unsupported statements, no footnotes, and an “I assure you” - I will ignore it.
I don’t think we should be asking Realtors/clients for their input in this venture, ESPECIALLY at this time. We don’t even have it all nailed down yet. I agree with most others posting…lets not put the cart before the horse. I know there are some who are not happy with the current definition of a CMI, so lets get that all settled before anything. Besides I fail to see how asking a Realtors opinion on this would make any sense? Just my opinion.
This is not a one size fits all prospect. Different markets carry different expectations.