Ontario Certified Master Inspectors

The Liberal party of Ontario platform for 2013 is based upon these 7 values:

  • equality of opportunity.
  • true fiscal responsibility.
  • clean environment.
  • affordable access to post-secondary education.
  • sustainable universal public health care.
  • open, fair, and strong democratic representation.
  • evidence-based crime policy.

You might be able to get to Kathlynn Wynn on point 4, as if the licensing requires home inspector education formalized through colleges and diploma mills then that hardly speaks to affordable access to post-secondary education when InterNACHI are and OntarioACHI will be, offering the same level of education free to members. Otherwise a letter to her will achieve exactly…nothing.

The Minister responsible for consumer complaints is Tracy McCharles MPP, and her Deputy is Giles Gherson MPP. If you want to have any impact above the Civil Service then that’s the best place to send it.

However from past experience, your letter will be opened by their private secretaries, collated into a sorted pile and sent to the relevant part of the ministry to deal with it. In this case, Ministry of Consumer Services, Policy & Consumer Protection Services Division. (See Chris Walsh’s post for the address)

They will then send it to the director of that Division (David Brezer), who will pass it on to his team leader for the Home Inspection Issues (Ben Valido), he will talk about it with his team, Aimee and Trishia, and you will get a holding response.

As of tomorrow the panel will be in session so everything will be buried until they reach their conclusions, which will create a temporary holding pattern until the panel findings are translated into policy and a bill by the Civil Servants, passes this to the Minister who will make an Announcement about the Bill. That’s the next input juncture for any dissension and that is best placed with “Friendly” Government MPP’s and the Opposition MPP’s who by the time this gets through will be out for blood, as it will be nearing Election time again.

If you don’t get what you want by this stage, then basically it is what it is, and you get what you get.

The Ministry of Consumer Services is solely consumer focused and the Ontario Liberals don’t want to incur any extra spending, so the panel is not going to be about what’s best for Inspectors, it’s going to be about what’s best for the Consumers and what’s best for the Government to show they are doing something for the Consumers.

The Panel, like all other consultative panels and committees, is going to be required to come to a consensus so that a middle path can be steered where everyone gets something they want the Consumer wins and the Government is seen to have driven that win.

Sorry to deflate anyone’s ego, it’s all about politics, but that’s the way Governmnet works.

With a province as big as ON, you have to incorporate grandfathering into the licensing adoption. I’m already very confident, that like Alberta (the most recent province to adopt licensing)… all Certified Master Inspectors will be grandfathered again in Ontario.

But I am already Grandfathered 3 times over.:mrgreen:

Almost, but not quite yet. :wink:

My concerns are quite simple. We do not need licensing but we are going to get it. That is a given (unless we have an election)

Education is the fat cow. We have a couple of course providers who want to own this cow and butcher it up for themselves.

I want free education, which has been provided by NACHI, to be available without the community college influence.

Now we get to that old gripe about proctored examinations. The universitys in this Province use on line education and examinations. I am certain some over paid civil servant can come up with a similar arrangement. OH, oh! Won’t be any money in that formula for the course providers!

Insurance is the last issue.

Mandatory E&O will put the likes of myself out of business. Mandatory insurance will only line the pockets of the fat cat insurance companies at the expense of the small volume inspector. I personally believe it is the small volume guys who do the majority of the good work out there.

Big volume franchise operations in my opinion are the true cowboys. Many were fast tracked.

I do 50 or 60 inspections per year. I am happy with that amount. I am a retired contractor and I enjoy the interaction with the young first time buyers.

A premium of $2,500 is out of the question. If I make a mistake, I will pay for it. If I am sued and it is frivilous, I will defend myself. E&O will not and have not stood up for the victims of frivilous law suits.

I have stated on this forum, that I have been sued twice. I have defended myself twice and I have won twice.

Insurance must be a business decision.

Insurance will be a business decision…do you want to stay in business or not…
Insurance: $2500
Licence: $500
You may have to increase your price by $50.00 to cover your increased cost of doing business.

Me only once, but isn’t it great :smiley:

That is bang on as to what we pay as CMI here.

This just sent out by me as I do not believe in licensing but I can see the tax grab as it comes.

An open letter to the Minister of Consumer Services of Ontario

As a Home inspector currently conducting business in Ontario I spent a considerable amount of time and money on education and tools on top of having forty years experience in the building trades prior to performing my first Inspection for a client. I and my firm are committed to the best possible residential inspection I can do for each and every one of my clients. Giving the best service and information is just good business and as independent business people I and many like me wish to continue giving our customers the best service and product we can at as reasonable a price as possible.

Given that, outside of the drama enriched, self serving tv show which would have people believe nearly every home inspection is flawed to the point it will costs many thousands of dollars to fix the missed problems in any home not inspected by Mr Mike Holmes Inspections company, ( Clearly intended to drum up business for his inspection company) there are in fact very few complaints to the ministry regarding home inspections and just as few lawsuits launched . There are so few compared to every other field of endeavor that home inspections ranks at the very bottom of the list of occupations generating lawsuits and complaints every year.

This begs the questions : does licensing protect the consumer who as yet judging from the number of complaints and lawsuits seem largely more upset with even their hairdresser than their home inspector? and who will benefit from licensing home Inspectors.
Yes it is true that licensing has been done in BC. and Alberta and has that lessened the number of complaints there? You have the latest facts at your disposal and the answer is no. Setting a minimum standard, as has been amply proven in many states in the U.S. and now in two of our provinces simply allows someone with minimal training fresh out of a college course and no real experience in the building fields to get a license and present themselves as a qualified home inspector, with your blessing.

I believe that a very telling fact on real qualification for being a home inspector is that by far the preponderance of current inspectors have many years of experience in the building trades and we are far and away the majority of us in an older age group. You can’t legislate age and experience into licensing yet those factors play an important part in being a good inspector. I am reminded of a father in laws saying : too soon we get old, too late we get smart. In home inspection though that plays in the clients favour now. Older experienced inspectors benefit consumers but I would ask if, as has happened where licensing has been imposed elsewhere, what happens when younger people looking for an easy and quick 1 year school course to get through then get out and make money jump in with an official government mandated license although no real experience. There is a vital experience component needed in a good home inspection.

The answer to the question is the Ministry of Consumer Affairs acting to protect the consumer by bringing in licensing of home inspectors must be for the most part no. In fact the ministry fails to protect the consumed by allowing them to believe that all inspectors are alike by being licensed. Taking a short course in a school or company sponsored training program to get the license does not mean they are qualified to give an expert opinion on the many thousands of components used in homes over the last hundred plus years and on the ways in which those components can and do fail.

Frankly If I were a homebuyer that had a major failure in a home after an inspection I would certainly urge my lawyer to add the Ministry to the lawsuit. Setting standards that would allow an 18 year old pass a one or even two year college program then get a license to advise me on the safety of a very expensive and complex structure is not a good way to protect consumers. There is no protection for the consumer in a license. I would also argue that there is only liability looming for the ministry as well.

This bring us to the question of who benefits from licensing then if the consumer really doesn’t, Well as always follow the money, first of course is the schools/ colleges who offer the partially government funded training. As the level of complaints is so low now, more people being put through taxpayer funded programs will not be of benefit but a determent to the consumer as inexperienced but licensed inspectors are sent out into the workforce. But, it will benefit the schools bottom lines whether there is a need for more home inspectors or not. Myself I can’t remember hearing anyone say they couldn’t get a home inspector because of a shortage.

Although very expensive and for the franchise seller a money maker, most franchise training programs like Pillar to Post which require no background and involve all of two weeks training one of which is spent on how to market to real estate agents and run the business are ethically a bad smell for the home inspection industry as it is. Despite franchisers assurances several mock inspections and a help line do not give the necessary experience to properly inspect a home. Any license based on franchise training or the recommendations of franchisers, benefits only the franchiser not the consumer.

Laws that allow inexperienced inspectors to represent themselves as on the same level as any other licensed inspector can only hurt the consumer while enriching the training program sellers. at the cost of the consumer and the taxpayer…

While I would argue that licensing is unnecessary in the first place, given the low number of any complaints, if it should be seen as important to the ministry than instead of a law and licensing system that enriches special interest groups, and puts inexperienced inspectors on the street, I would strongly urge the Ministry look at not just the educational portion of the requirements for a license but an apprenticeship portion as well.

Serving as an apprentice with a qualified practicing inspector would at least give the newly educated inspector a chance to learn and understand some of the great many permutations in equipment and systems found in the great range of homes out there today. With over 150 years of homebuilding available to inspect, the differing ways in which systems and components can fail are nearly endless and good inspectors are learning something every day. Mechanics, electricians, sheetmetal workers and many others serve a number of years as an apprentice or intern prior to licensing as do doctors lawyers engineers and architects. If the ministry truly wishes to protect the public then licensing with just an educational component is not the way to go.

Home inspectors are clearly now doing a good job for the public based on the very low number of complaints and lawsuits. A law allowing inexperienced inspectors into the workforce as licensed would bring more complaints and harm to consumers than good. I believe that experience is the main reason so few complaints are forthcoming as the majority of home inspectors are older trades trained people. If you truly want to protect the consumer, and insist on licensing, then it should be through regulation involving not just an educational component but it should include an apprentice component as well.

Sincerely
Bruce Grant
Done Right Home Inspection
www.muskokahomeinspection.ca
[FONT=&quot]Certified Master Inspector
InterNACHI
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More likely an association will be named in a suit by a negligent inspector. And if it can be proven that the association failed to act in an appropriate manner given the circumstances.

I applaud your effort.

As I said before “it’s a shame” more letters were not written. It appears there is a definite lack of enthusiasm.

Hopefully Nick is right: “with the size of Ontario, all CMI’s will be grandfathered.”

CMI’s will be grandfathered as long as someone is in the government’s face constantly telling them how great and experienced CMI’s are. Alberta had Vern doing that, who is doing that in Ontario?

http://www.nachi.org/forum/f52/ontario-licensing-84395/

For along time there has been more focus on certain Associations in Ontario. That is all stopping now thanks to hard work done to put InterNachi up front.
In the process MCS made some critical mistakes in the media that have been corrected.
I applaud them on there efforts to prevent further wrong media hype on Licensing in Ontario.
Nick is now concentrating 1/2 his time to bring the attention to CMI’s and Ontario is and will always have proper representation, now that we have enlightened the MCS.
CMI’s will plow the fields for the future of Home Inspection Industry and I hope the Government respects the commitment to remain as Professional as we can.