"open ground" on GFCI-protected circuit?

You first. :slight_smile:

Did you forget you just wrote this less than 2 weeks ago?

No I did not! I just can’t test them with the TESTER.

Who’s on first again?

Boy you chew on both sides don’t you? In one thread you say one thing and in another thread you say something entirely different.

Now all doubt has been removed, he is very confused.

For Kevin’s sake I hope he never has to testify in court.

No you are the one that is confused Mr. Whitt.
Those statements are all true.

Oh boy, here we go again. :roll:

not with me

Good move. :cool:

Kevin never does get it.

He has a history of this sort of thing.:frowning:

You will never know me Michael and Mr. Whitt your statement shows you would not be a wise choice for my clients either.
Post # 185

Kevin, we know all we need to know about you.

It’s sad but you have repeatedly displayed an unwillingness to learn.

You refuse to back down even when shown you have no argument that makes any sense.

In the end it’s your clients that are being hurt.

Nope only pig headed electrician!
Before the electricians go off the handle I only refer to some.
Sorry if it hurts you if you are an Electrician.

So how do you decide when and when not to tell your client that “no ground” is a safety issue?

I do the same as I would do with an improper deck .

Incorrect hangers on Deck Please have this checked and repaired by a qualified person.

Example No Ground found on some Plugs
Please have this checked and repaired by a qualified person .

Most people do nothing on these Concerns .

Example I have done the same house twice once 8 years ago and the upper Door still opens to a six foot drop no deck has been built yet.
.Write hard miss nothing and move on

The cut and dry answer is yes, you should change it.

Let’s look at this from a different angle. The GFCI, with or without ground, aspect of this discussion is clouding the underlying points.

Let’s say, I inspect a house for someone and put in my report “while brown switchplates are safe, white switchplates are safer”. Someone who reads the report might be thinking "gee, I better change all these switchplates to white, even though the white will not match the decor, because the white will be safer. Now let’s say that you see the report I wrote. What are you going to think?

You call me and ask why I made the comment in my report and I tell you that I read an article from a reputable laboratory that said white switch plates have a higher dialectric strength than brown plates. Does that fact alone constitute “safer”? What if we to turn to available statistics and find that there are detailed records of investigations of 2,000,000 occurrences of electrocution or fire that have involved switchplates. One million involved brown plates and one million involved white plates. No evidence was ever found that color had anything to do with the electrocutions or fires.

Now, it is still reasonable to say that one is safer than the other? White plates still have a higher dialectric strength. You could stand behind that position but to include it in a report would be a red herring. The color of the plates does not affect the habitability or safety of the house in any way. Likewise, GFCIs being grounded or not does not affect the habitability or safety of the house in any way.

The term “electrician” is a generic term that is applied, often colloquially, to any of a wide range of occupations. In the trades, we tend to use more specific names such as lineman, inside wireman, maintenance electrician, and so on. Different jurisdictions often also have their own terminology. They may use classifications such as Class A, Class B, Class C, Class 1, Class 2, Class 3 and so on. Not all electricians are equally qualified nor do they share the same experience. I know electricians who have done nothing other than work in refineries or power plants. Others have only done high Voltage work, wired new houses, rewired old houses, or have done line work and so on.

To take but one example how specialized electricians can be, I have installed a few substations. We always have a specialist come in to build the stress cones - ALWAYS. Usually, that is pretty much all the guy does. He goes from place to place building stress cones. Personally, I’d be bored silly doing just one thing like that but they elevate it almost to an art form (and with good reason in the case of stress cones). After 38 years working in and around the trades, there are many things that I wouldn’t think of doing because I am not qualified.

The main thing to remember, first and foremost, is that electricians are mechanics. They are trained to be mechanics. Yet, people turn to them to answer questions or “evaluate” things that they were never trained to evaluate in the first place. Electricians get basic electrical theory and construction technology and that’s it. That is especially true of the majority of electricians who did their apprenticeships during the last half of the 1980s and through the 1990s in the United States. If it were up to me, they would go back for remedial training in the fundamentals. They can spout NEC chapter and verse but cannot tell you WHY things are done the way they are done.

Anyone who has read my posts on this or other message boards knows that even though I have worked under 14 editions of the NEC and have taught NEC classes for 30 years, I refuse to answer NEC questions except on rare occasions. When I do, it is usually because I am trying to help someone understand the underlying theory. It is both wrong and unfair to expect every electrician to be able to “evaluate” electrical problems in a home or anywhere else.

The story of the thread.

In the beginning, Kevin made some posts.

Day two, he made some more posts.


Day Three, he continued to escalate his misunderstandings.


And today, the posts became nonsensical.

I am not sure what tomorrow will bring. :roll: