Originally Posted By: Anonymous
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is anyone familiar with ozone machines and there effect on mold and/or odors? is anyone familiar with ozone machines and there effect on mold and/or odors?Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
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My sister-in-law somehow got a real bad skunk smell in her house. We rented an ozone machine (about the size of a PC Tower) for each floor. Let them run for two days in a sealed house while they abandoned the house. Came back, shut them off, opened all the windows for a day to air the house out and the skunk smell was gone.
Rental company said we didn't want to be in the house at the same time those larger ozone machines were running.
Try a google search. Smaller ones exist that you apparently can be in the house while they are running.
Erby
Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Ok Erby,
I have to claim stupidity on that one. Why don't you want to be in the house while they are running?
Joe Myers
Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
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To much ozone in the air? Bad side effects of it? Some stuff like that. I really don’t remember.
Hell I don't know. But who wants to stay in a skunky smelling house anyway.
Erby
Originally Posted By: Tom Egan
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Ozone is super oxygenated air. A fan pushes Air thru an electrical ark in the machine. This electrical current cuts the oxygen molecule in half. When an oxygen molecule is cut it rapidly tries to attach to another oxygen molecule forming (O/3) and when it does it is a very active molecule that attacks all other molecules around it. It is a deodorizer because it is a strong oxidizer (killer of organic compounds or molecules) that is why it works on skunk odors. Remember it will only work on organic based odors.
Beware of ozone because it will cause headaches, nosebleeds and in high concentrations death. It will kill plants, and when ozone comes in contact with water it forms Hydrogen Peroxide, watch the fish tanks. It also destroys latex rubber almost instantly. This includes elastic in clothes like underwear, bras, curtains and most VCR's have belts that are made up of latex.
Ozone is an unstable gas that is heavy and a small fan should be used in the treated space to move the ozone around. Before entering an area after ozone has been used it should be aired out by opening windows and using fans if available. Remember ozone is unstable and will return to a normal state after a few minutes. 15 minutes should be enough before re-entry is possible.
Ozone has its place, however, as you now know there are some risks involved. Ozone is difficult to control and results vary with each application. If you have concerns about using ozone I would be glad to answer any questions you may have. I have been involved with a lot of research in this area and have lots of documents, if your interested let me know.
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Tom Egan CR. CIE.
Certified Restorer
Certified Indoor Environmentalist
National Property Damage Experts, LLC
1-800-718-4050
www.nationalserv.com
Originally Posted By: nlewis
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Tom,
What is the effect of the amount of ozone produced from an electrostatic air cleaner for a furnace?
Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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Tom,
Your answer really Kicked a$$. Extremely well written, and chock-full of great information. Thanks for the input and welcome to the forum!
Joe Farsetta
Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
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Wow, lot’s of good, well written information. It did Kick, didn’t it.
Welcome to the forum.
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, KY
www.b4uclose.com
Originally Posted By: ismetaniuk
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This membership was a big waste of my time!!!
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Igor
Top To Bottom Inspections
Glen Spey, NY
Originally Posted By: Tom Egan
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Lew, to answer your question I need to clarify a few things. There are two types of filters people confuse often, let me explain the difference and then I will answer your question.
First there is an electric static filter and an electronic filter. These are both common types but completely different from one another.
An electric static filter costs about twenty to fifty bucks. It comes in any size, is usually ordered and looks very much like any other normal filter except the filter material is made up of several layers of polypropylene (plastic). This plastic creates static electricity and this static electricity helps trap any airborne particulate. The efficiency is approximately 85% to 95% according to whose literature you read. The nice thing about this type of filter is that you can hose it clean to re-use and never needs replacing. A HEPA (High Efficiency Particulate Air) filter by the way traps 99.5% and higher to receive this rating.
An electronic air cleaner has to be installed by a professional and costs anywhere from $750.00 to $1,500.00. This type of filter has 2 large metal/aluminum filter plates, usually measures 3? deep x 14? tall and 14? wide. A cheap aluminum pre-filter is always used in this air cleaner. Both types of filters are re-usable and most manufactures recommend putting them in the dishwasher for cleaning. The filter has regular 110 power supplying thin wires and the aluminum blades with a small electrical charge that helps attract the airborne particulate. You can some times hear the occasional ZAP when large particles come in contact with the filter. Efficiency rating? They claim anywhere from 65% to 95%. I think it?s about 75% myself.
I recommend a pleated filter from home depot for twelve bucks and change it twice a year.
Sorry Lew, to answer your question neither filter has a strong enough current to create ozone. Usually ozone generators use an open current to create ozone. The current is at a special electrical level and is referred to as a ?Corona ark? named after the inventor I believe.
Igor, I found great humor in your comments. If only we could find a way to make money with this information!!!
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Tom Egan CR. CIE.
Certified Restorer
Certified Indoor Environmentalist
National Property Damage Experts, LLC
1-800-718-4050
www.nationalserv.com
Originally Posted By: Badger
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The EPA says that ozone should not be introduced into a residential living space. Ozone can be toxic to living organisms. There are many ozone “air cleaners” on the market and all should be avoided. Check the web site:
http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html
Ozone has been used to "kill" odors for years but it reacts with many airborne chemicals and the results are not always predictable or beneficial.
Morgan Audetat
P&H contractor
HI, WI & MN
Originally Posted By: Tom Egan
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Badger,
While you are correct in saying that ozone should not be used as an ?air cleaner?, it is an excellent deodorizer and the EPA is not disputing that. The EPA is pointing out that ozone does not clean the air as some have claimed. Some companies have in the past claimed there air cleaner kills germs, bacterial and molds. This is part true, however, in order to kill these organisms the concentrations would have to be so high that any person, animal or living organism would be adversely affected while the so called ?air cleaner? was running.
Ozone has been used for many years to remove odors in residential homes for fire restoration, skunk odor removal, dead animal odors and trauma scene clean-up. Portable ozone generators were designed for these and many more similar applications.
Ozone when used properly is much safer than trying to use chemicals to cover up odors like many people and contractors do. The nice thing about ozone is that it leaves no toxic residue and after fifteen minutes the treated area can be reoccupied. You mention that ozone is ?not always predictable or beneficial? I totally agree, but as with any potentially harmful chemical, tool or equipment, only an educated professional should use this type of equipment. When used properly and for the correct applications ozone is an excellent tool for odor removal not an air cleaner.
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Tom Egan CR. CIE.
Certified Restorer
Certified Indoor Environmentalist
National Property Damage Experts, LLC
1-800-718-4050
www.nationalserv.com
Originally Posted By: Robert Patterson
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Tom,
Some of the best info I've ever seen on ozone. Factual and easy to read.
Bob
Originally Posted By: ismetaniuk
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This membership was a big waste of my time!!!
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Igor
Top To Bottom Inspections
Glen Spey, NY
Originally Posted By: Tom Egan
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Igor,
I?m glad you found the information useful.
The mold class is under ?EMSL mold class? on the?s happening page. You can call my office and talk to me or have us e-mail or fax you an enrollment form. There is also more information on my web site www.nationalserv.com
I will speak about remediation and inspections, a lab technician from EMSL Analytical will give hands on demonstration for many types of testing and paperwork procedures and an attorney will discuss the liability issues. I am also working to get insurance information on mold for Home Inspectors, how much it will cost and if it is needed. Hope to hear from you,
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Tom Egan CR. CIE.
Certified Restorer
Certified Indoor Environmentalist
National Property Damage Experts, LLC
1-800-718-4050
www.nationalserv.com
Originally Posted By: Robert Patterson
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Igor,
Go to iaqa.com. Tom is certified by them as a CIE. The site will give you an overview of the training. I'm a member, but have never had the time to take the course (yes Tom, I'm jealous).
Bob
Originally Posted By: Tom Egan
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Igor,
The AIHA (American Industrial Hygiene Association) promotes, protects, and enhances industrial hygienists and other occupational health, safety and environmental professionals in their efforts to improve the health and well being of workers, the community, and the environment. This organization has a broad spectrum of focus that also includes Indoor air quality. Indoor Air Quality is not there only focus.
The IAQA (Indoor Air Quality Association) was established in 1995 to promote uniform standards, procedures and protocols in the Indoor Air Quality industry. Since its inception, IAQA has become a leader in training and education for IAQ practitioners. The association is committed to education and research, and serves as a forum for the exchange of ideas within the emerging IAQ field. Indoor air quality is there only focus.
As you can see both are non profit (very important) organizations and are involved with Indoor air quality, however, the IAQA is strictly focused on mold remediation, air duct cleaning and other indoor related subjects.
I am a Certified Indoor Environmentalist by the IAQA. This designation not only covers mold contamination but a wide range of building related problems including HVAC issues and building design and construction deficiencies. My company handles mold remediation, air duct cleaning and structure drying. The IAQA is the perfect organization for a person or company like mine as there focus is the same.
You mention Mold Pro, Hometest and Pro-Lab are not members of the AIHA. I really don?t know if they are or not. I do know EMSL has many offices and over 20 microbiologists employed by them so I would imagine they would be members. All these companies are really testing laboratories which I assume do there own in house testing. There are very few testing laboratories in the country that are certified to perform mold identification. I believe there is less than 20 or so total in the US and I know EMSL is one company that is certified.
To become certified, a lab must submit to and pass specific test requirements which are costly and stringent. This was developed to insure that private companies are handling analysis properly. The tests are called Environmental Microbiology Proficiency Analytical Testing (EMPAT). If a lab is not EMPAT compliant I believe they are not worth sending samples for analysis. If the results had to go to court any expert would have no trouble discrediting the tests. I have personally been involved in litigation as an expert where this has happened. When relying on information from a lab I want to make sure it is as accurate as possible. Remember the health and safety of your clients and employees rely on this information. Anyone could be looking at samples and giving a report. There is no specific training involved to open a company and charge people to look at samples. Make sure you do research about the companies you are doing work with. Some are just looking to take your money. This is one of the reasons I have put the upcoming mold testing class together. There is a lot of misinformation out there. I cover this and other topics in the class.
I?m sorry to be long winded. Hope this cleared up the question you had.
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Tom Egan CR. CIE.
Certified Restorer
Certified Indoor Environmentalist
National Property Damage Experts, LLC
1-800-718-4050
www.nationalserv.com
Originally Posted By: ismetaniuk
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This membership was a big waste of my time!!!
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Igor
Top To Bottom Inspections
Glen Spey, NY
Originally Posted By: gbell
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Has anyone tried the machinces from Eco Quest. Them claim to control mold and odors inside the building.
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Greg Bell
Bell Inspection Service