# Panels that allow double (and more) lug neutrals **URL:** \ **Category:** Electrical Inspections\ **Created:** [December 1, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702 "2016-12-01T13:58:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rlewis5](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rlewis5/32/337040_2.png) [@rlewis5](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rlewis5)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702/1 "2016-12-01T13:58:16Z")
I was just contacted by a electrician about an inspection I did about a month ago. Where I call out double lugged neutrals. He told and proved to me that certain Cutler Hammer and Siemens allow double lugging. He read me the manufacturers specs. He was nice about it. I had to agree , but I told him that there were many additional lugs that could have been use. And wouldn’t it have been better practice if there were one wire on each lug? He said yes. I should have read the panel info better. However, if it were my place there would be no double lug neutrals. Roy Lewis ---
**Author:** ![sfetty](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/sfetty/32/331195_2.png) [@sfetty](https://forum.nachi.org/u/sfetty)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 3:11pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702/2 "2016-12-01T15:11:58Z")
Was there any conditions set? Same size conductors… twisting together before lugging… etc? ---
**Author:** ![gmathias1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/gmathias1/32/194308_2.png) [@gmathias1](https://forum.nachi.org/u/gmathias1)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702/3 "2016-12-01T15:18:28Z")
It is almost impossible to know what can and cannot be double tapped (lugged). Square D has some that are allowed as well. Unless you pull the breaker so you can see the side of it is there another way of knowing?? ---
**Author:** ![lkage](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/lkage/32/347658_2.png) [@lkage](https://forum.nachi.org/u/lkage)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 3:31pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702/4 "2016-12-01T15:31:04Z")
> [@rlewis5](#): > > I was just contacted by a electrician about an inspection I did about a month ago. Where I call out **double lugged neutral** s. > He told and proved to me that certain Cutler Hammer and Siemens allow double lugging. He read me the manufacturers specs. He was nice about it. > > I had to agree , but I told him that there were many additional lugs that could have been use. And wouldn’t it have been better practice if there were one wire on each lug? He said yes. > > I should have read the panel info better. > However, if it were my place there would be no double lug neutrals. > > Roy Lewis > [@gmathias1](#): > > It is almost impossible to know what can and cannot be double tapped (lugged). Square D has some that are allowed as well. Unless you pull the breaker so you can see the side of it is there another way of knowing?? Greg, the OP is talking about grounded (neutral) conductors which I don’t believe are addressed on any breakers. ---
**Author:** ![gmathias1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/gmathias1/32/194308_2.png) [@gmathias1](https://forum.nachi.org/u/gmathias1)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 3:55pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702/5 "2016-12-01T15:55:14Z")
> [@lkage](#): > > Greg, the OP is talking about grounded (neutral) conductors which I don’t believe are addressed on any breakers. Yup, was reading to fast, please ignore me.:mrgreen::mrgreen: ---
**Author:** ![rlewis5](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rlewis5/32/337040_2.png) [@rlewis5](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rlewis5)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702/6 "2016-12-01T15:56:42Z")
> [@sfetty](#): > > Was there any conditions set? Same size conductors… twisting together before lugging… etc? Yes! Same sized conductors. ---
**Author:** ![rlewis5](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rlewis5/32/337040_2.png) [@rlewis5](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rlewis5)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 3:58pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702/7 "2016-12-01T15:58:16Z")
> [@gmathias1](#): > > Yup, was reading to fast, please ignore me.:mrgreen::mrgreen: Yep! … ![NACHI.jpg](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/c/b/cb866684ead5be948f8fa6bbcf49e044f251c2a1.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Port](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bc8723/32.png) [@Jim\_Port](https://forum.nachi.org/u/Jim_Port)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702/8 "2016-12-01T16:20:01Z")
The electrician is wrong. Grounded, aka neutrals require a separate hole per code and manufacturer instructions. Grounding conductors may be doubled if instructions allow. ---
**Author:** ![rlewis5](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rlewis5/32/337040_2.png) [@rlewis5](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rlewis5)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702/9 "2016-12-01T16:34:47Z")
> [@Jim\_Port](#): > > The electrician is wrong. Grounded, aka neutrals require a separate hole per code and manufacturer instructions. > > Grounding conductors may be doubled if instructions allow. I thought I was correct, but my 2011 NEC doesn’t have 408.21. Can you give me the correct section number? ---
**Author:** ![rlewis5](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rlewis5/32/337040_2.png) [@rlewis5](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rlewis5)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702/10 "2016-12-01T16:55:01Z")
I found it … He was full of crap. 408.41 Grounded Conductor Terminations. Each grounded conductor shall terminate within the panelboard in an individual terminal that is not also used for another conductor. Exception: Grounded conductors of circuits with parallel conductors shall be permitted to terminate in a single terminal if the terminal is identified for connection of more than one conductor. Isn’t circuits with parallel conductors for high amp systems? ---
**Author:** ![pabernathy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/pabernathy/32/178230_2.png) [@pabernathy](https://forum.nachi.org/u/pabernathy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702/11 "2016-12-01T17:35:45Z")
LOL… ---
**Author:** ![rlewis5](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rlewis5/32/337040_2.png) [@rlewis5](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rlewis5)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702/12 "2016-12-01T17:48:37Z")
> [@pabernathy](#): > > LOL… What’s so funny Paul! You ain’t been hittin’ the bong again…Just jokin’. I’m glad you showed up. Question… Where will I most likely see a circuits with parallel conductors? ---
**Author:** ![mlarson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mlarson/32/89225_2.png) [@mlarson](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mlarson)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702/13 "2016-12-01T17:50:25Z")
Sparky’s proof went POOF. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Port](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bc8723/32.png) [@Jim\_Port](https://forum.nachi.org/u/Jim_Port)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702/14 "2016-12-01T17:51:02Z")
Probably confused grounded with grounding. ---
**Author:** ![pabernathy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/pabernathy/32/178230_2.png) [@pabernathy](https://forum.nachi.org/u/pabernathy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702/15 "2016-12-01T17:57:01Z")
> [@mlarson](#): > > Sparky’s proof went POOF. That is what would be so FUNNY…it was stated the guy read the information from the manufacturers specifications and then…POOF… It just shows (and I see it all the time in the vast amount of technical meetings I attend around the country for Encore Wire) that sometimes people spew things without backing them up and like a bee to honey people blindly follow their lead. I always have an old saying…don’t just believe me…LOOK IT UP YOURSELF kinda rule. ---
**Author:** ![pabernathy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/pabernathy/32/178230_2.png) [@pabernathy](https://forum.nachi.org/u/pabernathy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702/16 "2016-12-01T18:01:43Z")
> [@rlewis5](#): > > What’s so funny Paul! You ain’t been hittin’ the bong again…Just jokin’. > I’m glad you showed up. > Question… Where will I most likely see a circuits with parallel conductors? I explained my LOL in another post…(not LOL at you…but you will see that in the other post I made in this thread) You are correct in that usually the concept of a parallel installation is to obtain a greater conductor (set) capacity. In most cases when the underground (hot) conductors are increased for capacity the increase in the grounded (neutral) conductor(s) follow. Now we are not talking about the increase by ratio of the grounding conductor in 250.122(B)…so yes it is important to know the difference and possibly this electrical contractor did not understand the difference maybe. Hey we all make mistakes…it’s human right. However, just so you know that exception is actually pretty much a general rule overall. When you connect to a terminal in general it can handle only one conductor (wire) unless expressed otherwise by the manufacturer. The exception is just to re-establish that fact for the grounded(neutral) conductor as well. Now about the BONG…we have drug testing rules here at Encore Wire…shush your mouth…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rahel\_Rish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Rahel\_Rish](https://forum.nachi.org/u/Rahel_Rish)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702/17 "2016-12-15T15:27:31Z")
Hi everyone…i am new here. As per my knowledge it is impossible to know what can and cannot be double tapped. Square D has some that are allowed as well. Unless you pull the breaker so you can see the side of it. ---
**Author:** ![pabernathy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/pabernathy/32/178230_2.png) [@pabernathy](https://forum.nachi.org/u/pabernathy)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702/18 "2016-12-15T20:17:01Z")
> [@Rahel\_Rish](#): > > Hi everyone…i am new here. As per my knowledge it is impossible to know what can and cannot be double tapped. Square D has some that are allowed as well. Unless you pull the breaker so you can see the side of it. Not impossible at all. The design on the CB can give it away, the model number that is listed as the acceptable use on the panel legend (if available) is another way to do a little research to find the answer as well. I can tell you this, if you do not know the answer to that question on the inspection and you happen to encounter a “double tap” then my advice would be to note it and let the licensed electrical contractor sort that out. FYI - Schneider, Siemens and Eaton have such circuit breakers available within a specific size range (usually 14-10 AWG) and I am sure others probably do as well. It’s not impossible…but in older models its probably a given that they are not rated for multiple conductors. ---
**Author:** ![rmeier2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rmeier2/32/59909_2.png) [@rmeier2](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rmeier2)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702/19 "2016-12-15T20:23:52Z")
> [@Rahel\_Rish](#): > > Hi everyone…i am new here. As per my knowledge it is impossible to know what can and cannot be double tapped. Square D has some that are allowed as well. Unless you pull the breaker so you can see the side of it. It’s not impossible but it may not be easy either. Take a look at this commercial circuit breaker. ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/e/de36ea68a0c99f222d06ed85fa4d56a96ac7a078.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![pabernathy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/pabernathy/32/178230_2.png) [@pabernathy](https://forum.nachi.org/u/pabernathy)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702/20 "2016-12-15T20:36:23Z")
BOOYAH…add GE to the list…😉 [Next page](https://forum.nachi.org/t/panels-that-allow-double-and-more-lug-neutrals/111702.md?page=2)