Pennsylvania

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Just so there is no further confusion, the law does not require direct supervision. While I don’t think that anyone here would disagree, for those entering into the profession, it would certainly be a good idea until the new inspector feels comfortable going out on their own. icon_biggrin.gif


Joe Myers


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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Staying with Jeff Remas’s original post topic and subsequent posts:


The problem I see ASHI has with PA's Attorney General is that 150 inspection gap between when PA says a home inspector is a full member of an association (100th inspection) and when ASHI says a home inspector is a full member of ASHI (250th inspection).

It is in this 150 inspection zone that ASHI loses its members in PA.

I believe its nothing more than a membership retention issue for ASHI.

Nick

PS Joe, I really don't have any stance on this. I don't see ASHI's loss as NACHI's gain here.


Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Nick,


ASHI wants to have the power in PA, just like in other states. It is true that the PHIC guys are using this guise to try and bring licensing to PA but far from the only reason.

PHIC has no power in PA. No power to decide who can, or who will be able to perform inspections in PA. They have no power to keep track of who can or can not perform inspections. They lay claim that many are performing insepctions illegally. To my knowledge there have not been any cases of any that have been charged with performing inspections illegally.

Joe Myers


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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I heard a rumor that all the NAHI guys quit PHIC and that they are now just a Coalition (the “C” in PHIC) of ASHI.


Does anyone know if this is true?

Nick


Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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Why would they ever quit? Once they’re in, they’re in. Makes no sense to me. Probably another rumour.



Joe Farsetta


Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Nick,


Sorry that must be a rumor. I see that Bill is still on the board and he is a NAHI/PAHI member.

Joe Myers


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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I’m not talking about individual members. I heard that only 1 NAHI chapter is left in PHIC. The rest quit. Very reliable source.


Nick


Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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Only takes two people and a business card to form a coalition. I tink of PHIC as more of a “cartel” of sorts. Or “Pennsylvania Home Inspection Comrades”



Joe Farsetta


Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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I just got off the phone with my PHIC buddy (yes, we have a fox in the hen house). It’s true. Only one NAHI chapter left in PHIC. Nice to NAHI wising up.


It is now essentially a coalition of only one association.

Nick


Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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They’ll spin it to state that several of those members only renewed their ASHI membership, or joined for the first time. They’ll also say that its a coalition of Home Inspectors, not HI associations.


You know... lying, for them, gets easier after a while.


--
Joe Farsetta

Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."

Originally Posted By: dbowers
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I just happening to be reviewing this posting and saw some well intentioned but false information. To start with as a national trainer I train a lot of engineers, architects, electricians, remodelers, HVAC guys, home builders, code inspectors as well as every other type of trade or craft wanting to get into home inspection. There is a huge amount of false information given out as gospel that others hear and believe and then pass on to others, without researching.


An example would be the statement that engineers and architects are required everywhere to have E & O insurance to get licensed. That is a wide spread but false statement. YOU may be in a state where that holds true but in Kansas, Arkansas, Missouri, Alabama, and many others its not.

Until just recently in my state and 2 others around me that I know of, engineers and architects were not required to take continuing education. In short once they received their license - say 15 or more years ago the state did not make them take any CE to renew their license. DO YOU think there has been any changes in building science since then??

Up till about 12-15 years ago in many states (we were one), if you could pass the engineering boards test you could be a designated engineer without actually having a degree in engineering. I've met several.

There are at least 45 engineering degrees that I'm aware of including: farm agriculture, marine, robotics, nuclear, computer software, chemical, waste water management, chemical, traffic control, telecommunication, petroleum, etc, etc. Any of these folks could use the P.E. designation after their name and be GRANDFATHERED into the HI licensing of most states.

And yes, I'm starting to see this. How much training in HI did they get in college. Don't take my word for it - get a few college catalogs and look. There are some engineers that because of the type of degree they got received much more classroom training than the typical HI, but most engineers do not. They could also have received additional training in construction related issues or HI after college - most did not.

Lets bless our good ones, but not GRANDFATHER the rest.

For the records, I checked last year with 3 different state engineering boards to see if they had ever disciplined an engineer or architects license due to faulty home inspecting - None of Them Had. Yet I've personally testified in about 13 cases against P.E.'s where they were found at fault or negligent in the HI. So how much protection does the license give??

Dan Bowers (Kansas City)


Originally Posted By: mpetner
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I don?t know why there is a statement that engineers need E&O in order to get licensed - I?ve never heard of that. What I did hear is that anyone performing professional services (i.e. engineers) and is directly liable for their designs, must have professional liability insurance. Licensed engineers all over the country work for their employers and are not required to have E&O.


You are right about the continuing education requirements, as well as, not necessarily having an engineering degree in order to get the PE designation. Some states do recognize experience and will allow those individuals to take the test. If they pass, congratulations to them. Each licensed engineer has a state issued number. I?m not exactly sure about this, but you might be able to tell if that person got the PE designation in that particular state by exam, reciprocity, etc. Again, I?m not exactly sure about this, but for those who are concerned about this, find out the engineer?s full ID number.

You are also right about states grandfathering engineers into there home inspection licensing law. NOT ALL STATES will grandfather licensed engineers into their home inspection licensing . I?m familiar with Pennsylvania and New Jersey laws on this. At this point, PA hasn?t grandfathered anything, and NJ will do it only under review by their engineering licensing board - atleast that?s how I understand it to be.

Colleges and Universities, that I know of, don?t incorporate home inspection into any of their Bachelor of Science/Arts degrees. My understanding of why states grandfather engineers (although I don't know any that do as I'm writing this) into their licensing laws is that engineers have been trained to be very detail oriented. They have been trained to look at problems and find the cause and solution. Additionally, engineering ethics are a big part of earning that degree.

Your statement about how you testified against other PE?s. Well, engineers make mistakes, too. For that 13 you testified against, there may be 13 other non-PE?d home inspectors that were found negligent else where by some other court. Just because it's a PE'd home inspector, doesn't make that a better home inspector.

Personally, I don?t think that just because you?re an engineer, that makes you a good home inspector. That engineer would need to properly educate him or herself before practicing home inspections - anything less would not be good for the customer. I guess that?s the ethics part of me speaking.

If you?re a PE and do bad home inspections, your business will suffer. Having been grandfathered into the home inspection licensing would not mean much then.


Originally Posted By: dbowers
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Michael - I agree with about 100% of what you said. I hope I didn’t come off as picking on the PE’s. In the past 2 weeks, I’ve seen 4 postings on various bulletin boards (NACHI, ASHI and I think NAHI) by non-engineers telling anybody reading them, that all PE’s and archtiects are required to carry E & O - so maybe all HI’s should have to get it as a mandate.


In 26 years I've carried E & O in all but 2 years and been blessed to have never had a claim against my policy. Many HI's and PE's have not been that lucky. You're right about lawsuits being filed against any HI. My meaning is that HI is a unique profession and in 26 years I've never yet met any 1 degree, trade, or profession that just automatically qualified someone to be a Professional HI.

This includes home builders, remodellers, architects, engineers, etc.

In years past most of the PE's I met in HI had degrees or experience in civil, structural, construction or architectural engineering. AS HI has gotten more popular (and lucrative) I'm seeing folks with engineering degrees in computer software design, robotics, farm agricultural, etc. In many states where there is HI licensure, all of these COULD be GRANDFATHERED or EXEMPTED from the HI laws and regulations.

That is what I was tring to convey in my posting.

Dan Bowers (Kansas City)


Originally Posted By: dbowers
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I guess I should have spell checked the previous post before I posted it.


Dan Bowers


Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Dan,


You have to be kidding. They don't require E & O Insurance for engineers and architects! ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

Don't worry, I am not an engineer and I did not take your posting personally.

I think I saw one of your books somewhere recently, "Engineering for dummies". You have to give it to Microsoft, without windows there never would have been a need for this type of book format. Since the office products are following the tradition there is more need than ever! ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

Joe Myers


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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Good news.


ASHI has been pushing one of their ASHI SOP/ASHI licensing board laws here in PA and the bill was introduced.

Guess what? ASHI got deleted out. Not a mention of ASHI in the whole bill. Very even handed for inspectors. I had it read to me last night.

Nick