PRO-LAB deal on IR Camera: $2,995.

According to Richard, it was his tools (in this case, his phone) that did the job. Had you used that same phone, you would have gotten the appointment, too?

Why does NACHI not have a telephone vendor selling classes on how to operate the “Home Inspector Appointment Setting Telephone Instrument” on the new $2,499 appointment setting phone instrument he is offering for sale?:wink:

How 'bout a Daily Door Prize!
Nick? :mrgreen:

Many points to address here

First the home – I always try to get as much information about an inspection before I accept and quote. A standard home is one thing. This one was not standard and my client could not supply enough information for me to know what I was getting into. Yes, I could have walked to the next town and then walked to my client and told him what services I would supply and then walked home. Letting the client know that you can provide a high level of service is the key. The inspection took extra time because of the condition of the 75 year old home. No way of knowing based on the information that the client could supply with out a visit to the site

Tools and Knowledge

We all use tools. The better they are the better we are at our profession. Do you want a Doctor to gain his experience on you body or would you like to have some lower level medical tec to run some SMART current state of art equipment and give you a read out as to your health? Doctors make mistakes. It takes training to take blood pressure the old way. With a consumer grade SMART tool you can do it your self with very little training and it will even tell you if is too high

The best military

I will put our 19 year old part time reserve with a smart killing tool that can see in the dark against a skilled sharp shooter any day of the week to protect my family. Don’t put down some of our people that are home less etc. Many are vets that we used to protect our country. Many of the men and women in the service today are there for the $$ and education. They are not professional killers and protectors of our way of life. They are young people just trying to have a better life. They have giving us a blank check to use them as we see fit payable with their life for money and a good education. The USN education that I recieved was first class. Trust me I was not skilled and educated when I started to run a SMART tool of war. God is on the side of the army with the best equipment (THE BIG GUNS WIN)

IR

We all keep hearing – GET TRAINED – level 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 etc. and get trained from the best (in who’s eyes) WHY - because the equipment is not smart enough to know if it is seeing a problem or what is normal. So make the tool smarter. Maybe even smart and low in cost for the home owner to use himself.

Yes, I am all for replacing people with machines when the machine does a better job. We keep training with the idea that better trained better job. We start to think that the value of education is worth BIG $$ and boy do we pay and pay. (Look at you local school’s budget)

Take the same time and money and put the smarts into the product

And don’t get upset when the new inspector does the job better than you for less money because he or she invested in tools - not himself

Did you buy an IR camera or are you thinking about it?

This thread says “PRO-LAB deal on IR Camera: $2995” That is about 10 inspections. By having it will it bring you a quick 10 additional inspections??

I am waiting for the next model for just a very short time and it better be a better product that I can use the day I get it.

rlb

Don’t look now but phones are selling like sun-screen

They probably save more fuel world wide than any invention that man has ever made

rlb

Like I said I didn’t know the situation of why you felt you had to go see the house first. That’s really immaterial to my point.

Your phone, all by itself did not get you that job.
Yes, without that phone you would not have had a way to talk to the client.
Just having the phone, however, was not why you got the job. Your KNOWLEDGE in how to use the phone helped a bit, I’m sure.

No.
The better WE are at USING them (KNOWLEDGE), the better we are at our profession.
With your argument, anyone can be a top notch inspector simply by having the best tools. The key is the KNOWLEDGE it takes to USE the tool and the KNOWLEDGE required to interpret results.
Your moisture meter cannot get from the truck to the crawl space on it’s own. It also has no KNOWLEDGE of where it should be placed or how to turn itself on. The number it generates is completely arbitrary unles you have the KNOWLEDGE to undersdtand what that number means and how to convey that to your client.

Which is it - Doctor “gaining experience” (ie doing something) on my body or a lower level tech “giving me a read out” (ie running tests).

Either way your argument doesn’t hold water. The actual performance of the tests (ie. BP, EKG, CAT scan, MRI) is not the same as interpreting the results (KNOWLEDGE)

As does everyone.

For BP, sure. Also moitoring blood sugar levels has gotten much easier too.
But if someone had to have major surgurey (brain surgurey, heart transplant, etc) who would you rather have - the doctor performing his first surgeurey with “the latest equipment” or a doctor who has done 500 surgureies - using the same equipment.

Do you think out troops - whom I have great respect for BTW - are enlisted suited up and flown to IRAQ on day 1 with “smart killing tools”. Of course not they require training (KNOWLEDGE) of how to USE the tools they are given.
You continue to confuse the tool itself with ones ability to properly USE the tool. With your argument we should be able to take anyone, drop them in a hot zone with a “smart killing tool” and expect them to be successful.

I have not put down anyone. If you re-read my previous post I said that using the homeless would solve more than one problem - they wouldn’t be homeless anymore.

I understand there are many reasons people would join the military and I am grateful to all that they do serve.

Your education? I though your whole premis was that knowledge does not matter? So, the tool itself “SMART tool of war” was not enough? You needed to learn how to use it? (KNOWLEDGE)

This is a discussion for a different thread.

And many tools have been made smarter - computers, phones, DVD players. It still takes some degree of KNOWLEDGE (training) to use them.

Yes, the more you know about what you’re doing, the better you can do it. As far as replacing people w/ machines :roll: .

So what is the value of education? If there was no education whatsoever, how would people have the KNOWLDGE to build the SMART tools, you are so anxious to have?

Who is “putting the smarts into the product”? Is it your un-educated, unskilled person? Or perhaps it is someone who has the KNOWLEDGE to identify the need for a SMART tool and the KNOWLEDGE of how to produce and sell it.

That’s too funny. So in an unlicensed state (assuming no formal training) someone who has no background in the trades at all and goes out and buys all the best tools (even if they don’t know how to use them) will do a better inspection that a 20yr vet with a handfull of “basic” tools.
That’s ridiculous.

No and yes

Probably not, but by doing better inspections - once I have the KNOWLEDGE to use it and interpret - it may bring me 100 inspections.

You can use anything the day you get it. Whether you’ll use it properly is another story.
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Lets continue this HERE

I conduced an IR inspection on a home where the buyer brought an engineer. He said his company developed a thermal imaging camera that mounts inside a fireman’s helmet a couple of years ago. $25k was the cost. When he heard what the price of my Flir SD cost, he said it would be less than three years for his camera to be around $7k.
Remember the $1,200 digitals which are now about $150 ?
Time will tell

Richard

The doctor has do his first by himself some time

Glad that most of the time it is a team of doctors

Why did you want to start another thread??

rlb

Jim;

Don’t mean to pick on you, and I hope you will take it that way, but your post brings up just the kind of discussion I want to have about this topic. Please do not take my comments personally. I am just addressing the points you have brought up in your post. They are good ones and must be discussed.

That said:

Around here, there are many inspectors whou have cameras. There are only a few who have the training.

And, slowly, but surely, the untrained ones are getting themselves in trouble.

What you need is:

  1. Be a good, professional inspector.
  2. Once you have done # 1, get a camera. Then play with it and learn all you can on your own.
  3. Get professional training. The prices are coming down all the time (just like with the cameras :wink: ).
  4. Play with it some more.
  5. Start marketing.
  6. Last, but not least, get ready to be criticized and slammed by those who are still on step # 1.

Hope this helps;

I don’t see where I “slammed” anyone, Will.

Personally, as long as users of the IR cameras are adding additional inspection fees for what they tout as an additional service, I have no problem with it.

But some are not. Instead, they are making the stupid claim that a home inspection is “incomplete” without the use of this camera…and trying to create a brand new “minimum basic requirement” because they have one and their competitor does not. I am not referring to you, here.

The SOP requires what is to be inspected, how it is to be inspected, and how to be reported. The tools used to accomplish this are at the discretion of the inspector. The client pays for my expertise in analyzing and reporting my findings, whether they were discovered with my flashlight, my moisture meter, my electrical tester or my IR camera.

If IR inspectors post that they like their IR camera, good for them.

One of the side benefits of an IR camera is the fact that it makes
a great marketing tool. That is cool too. They can charge whatever
they want and if they think it helps them do a better job, then I
see no problem with that either.

Live an let live. Where is the sin?

There is “marketing”…and then there is intentionally misleading the public. The latter is the sin.

IR cameras, like other tools, can help an inspector in certain situations. I think if the truth were told, if one were forced to choose between taking a flashlight or an IR camera, the flashlight would prevail.

So to say that an IR is essential to a basic home inspection, or to infer that a home inspection conducted without an IR camera is insufficient, is an intentional misleading of the public.

Free enterprise is good. Greed is good. Go for the most money you can legitimately earn with every opportunity. Just tell the truth.

Those who sell education for camera users certainly need a market and there is no harm in their touting the device. But to diminish from the work of others who also use a variety of sophisticated tools to ensure accuracy in their description of defects is unethical and wrong.

I am not accusing any one individual, but I have read some posts that skirt very closely to disparaging inspections not conducted with these cameras, which is absolutely ridiculous.

There is a weakness in this industry that holds our prices down, continuously, IMO. For some strange and unexplainable reason…whether it is the association I belong to, the tools I use, the SOP I use, or the licensing law I lobby for…I want to be only the minimum acceptable.

That’s right, and you can see it on every message board in the industry.

My qualifications/association/tools/etcetera are what it takes to do a home inspection and anyone lacking is not qualified to perform one.

So…with all my qualifications/tools/associations/etcetera…and my fee of $275 for a 2000 sq ft house…I am still stuck at the bottom.

If this IR enhances the inspection in the ways that you say…you would be paid extra for it. If you are not making extra money from this investment, it is a bad one…for one with the proper knowledge and experience can perform a complete home inspection in accordance with the SOP with little more a flashlight, ladder and tape measure.

The InterNACHI inspector agreement states:

“Thermal imaging is a technology that allows the InterNACHI
INSPECTOR to show you things about your home that no one can
show you using other inspection methods.”

This is simply a true statement. :wink:

Regarding what someone charges, that is none of my business.
I charge more, but I don’t care if others do or not.

I don’t understand your reason for the quote from the agreement or its relevance. There is nothing that an IR camera can do, exclusively, to perform an inspection in accordance with the SOP that an inspector could not already do.

The “more”…the additional things an IR camera could show…should result in extra pay. The “more” does not detract from the SOP performed home inspection. If the people are not paying more for the “more”…what the hell use is it?

Glad to hear you are charging more for “more”.

You said it was “misleading” to say an “IR is essential to a basic home inspection”.

I am saying that an IR camera is essential for a more thorough home inspection
and the inspector agreement states this as well… that IR reveals things that
“no one can show you using other inspection methods.”

There is nothing wrong with promoting more than the minimum standard.
Promoting a better inspection is cool.

If ever i saw 2 sides of a coin. Or something that exposes both sides of a coin. The Infrared camera is it. I have had Real Estate Agents just get in there cars and drive off from an inspection because they did not know what to say to there sellers when the buying agent had me doing an Infrared scan to a home with a vaulted ceiling and exposing all the missing insulation and roof leaks. The seller just walking out the back door standing in the back yard.

Then i see One H.I. On one side of the Infrared camera and then we See others that don’t want anything to do with them. Just amazing.

This will be one of the most interesting things to see play out over the next 5 years or so. As it stand now I’m the only Structural Pest Building Inspector North of San Francisco. The first time i saw an Infrared camera i just about fell out of my chair. I have been inspecting homes for some 30 years now and this tool I.R Is by far the best tool for an inspector to have in his hipbag. I completely understand both side and both points of view.

The only thing i can say is that if you want to make a few more bucks I.R. Is the way to go… For me I’m making an extra 2.000.00 a month from it as a stand alone extra and I'm just getting started in my area... That's an extra 24K A year the first year…

I don’t sell it as I’m better than any other inspector. But and this is the big one. Everyday i find things other inspectors over look. If any one over looks that point then i don’t know what to say… But ( i ) do a better job with the camera then ( i ) DO with out it. And I’m making more money with it.

Best

Ron

Your quote does not say what you say it does.

What is essential, and what a home inspector is paid to perform (especially in Texas where the state determines for you what is essential) is an inspection performed and reported in accordance with the SOP.

This can be done without an IR camera.

If you want to know things about your home that are not on the SOP…hopefully, for an extra fee…you can get an “infra red” peak at your house.

Ancilliary inspections for energy efficiency, etc…these are great add ons.

But a thorough and complete home inspection performed in accordance with the SOP need not have IR technology to be essential, complete, and accurate.

You know this. It does not sell the camera or the class, but you still know this to be true.

I do not see a thing wrong with your post. Very good points.

What is so complex about this? I know that an IR camera does not fit into your
“walk by” inspections that you promote, but not all of us are into that.

John you are whizzing against the wind in even discussing this. There are too many inspectors out there that want nothing more than to just follow a bare minimum SOP and that is what SOP’s are, just the minimum required by any State or National association to get the job done. I for one have always exceeded the minimum it is a very simple market approach provide more than the guy down the street. Notice I stated more, not better. It does not matter if you do this with tools,experience or knowledge but there must be something that separates you from the other guy for the client choose you. The IR camera was the business decision I chose to provide this difference. I Market the hell out of this tool and will continue too until every HI has one in his tool bag and then I will market my longevity with this tool over someone one just starting out with one.