Roofing Question

Intersecting valleys on a 2008 home. I am documenting as unconventional and an area of concern.

My thought is the valleys should have originally been extended to terminate at the edge of the roof…Comments?

Terrible design.Besides the wear it looks to me as if the water would overshoot the gutter .

Needs correction no doubt.

Hope this explains why it happened and why it is wrong.


Good diagram Marcel. It also looks like they cut the valleys on the dormer side. Being that the main roof appears to be the same pitch it should be reversed. It would have been a simple fix to build a pan or cricket(as we called them)

Seeing a different view and the inside framing in the attic, would tell me exactly what happened.
In either case the framing was not done correctly and provided this problem where the water will just run under the cut valley shingles.
Even with ice and water shield, in a cold environment, this would cause some problems with the roof surface material and potential leaks.

Good pick up on your part. Good job. :slight_smile:

Marcel -

Thank you for your diagram. Excellent work…You ‘visualized and verbalized’ my thought on improper design/framing and extending the valleys to the eave. Regretably, this area of the attic was inaccessible due to HVAC equipment.

Curtis -

You are correct. Both valleys are improperly cut on the dormer side…dormers and main roof are same pitch.

Great work.

This is just one of a number of cookie-cutter homes in the same development…all with the same general roofline.

I hope the flashing is at least several feet up each pitch and is all done in one piece or this roof will leak sooner or later.
Also the gutter needs to be bigger to handle that much water.

I would have installed a metal apron 3’ above each intersecting plain. Grace Ice shield would be installed on total decking.
The aprons in galvanized, copper, aluminum aid in longevity and add a water tight seal to any intersection of roofing plains as the one you have shown in your inspection.

Mr.Braun adding a solid piece of material like galvanized copper or aluminum one piece or even 2 piece flashing is useless due to the nail holes that will penetrate the material.
It must be open exposed apron or flashing. It is formally called a apron in Montreal Canada.

It is not an improper design Mr.Coslett.
It was the lack of knowledge or experienced or plan cheep roofer to distinguish the material needs of the architectural design.
That’s all.

Robert thanks for your opinion and insight. While I certainly agree the roofing material was installed incorrectly, the root problem is still an ‘improper design’.

After walking the roof the prefered method of framing would clearly have been to extend the valley rafter to the eave of the dwelling. This would have allowed installation of a conventional, shingle roof that would properly shed water. Instead, the owner is left with an intersecting valley that was retaining water at the time of the inspection. This roof will undoubtedly leak before the design life of the shingles is approached. In addition, the gutter in question was not nearly capable of handling the water shed from the roof as evidenced by the movement of landscaping mulch into the yard underneath the gutter.

While I would agree an experienced roofer could have reduced the chances of leaking in the intersecting valley, there is little recourse for the gutter system.

Why design an element or feature of a dwelling that pushes the envelope of buliding science and materal performance to such a degree?

I would not make a big deal out of this. No… it’s not great design, but there’s much worse out there, like when the chimney sits at the bottom of the valley.
This is going to drain OK unless it’s in ice dam territory, then it could be a real leak-maker.

I have worked the trades for 35 plus years now.
It is the lack of proper training that is the obvious flaw in all practices.
To me the example you have shown is a non issue. Its a simple fix for a journeyman roofer that has been taught a trade properly.
Making an area watertight with all available materials.
All has to be looked at. Not only a specific trade you look at the architect, materials , and installations.
As stated before. That is a common problem for shingle men that call themselves roofers. They are called tilers in Canada and are not considered full roofers.Its a sub-trade. My roofing license test was 40 question long in 1982. How do you start a shingle roof was the only question pertaining to shingle roofs.
Again that intersection of plains is a non issue to make watertight,t look good. and last beyond the life expectancy of any shingle on the market today.
Flashed and sealed with copper with a kick out.
Sorry fort the edit.

Kenton it is something I have accomplished 2 times. Same situation. It is not an issue for a roofer.
If a roof has been done properly using all the right materials, ice dams are not an issue.
Its the roofers that sell a roof for price and not longevity is the problem.
Most shingle men have never accomplished the journeyman card. They learned only shingling and not taught the TRADE properly.
I have never had a come back from roofs I installed 25 years ago with mufti plans like this.