Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
dbozek wrote:
Regardless, to make such a statement was uncalled for. I personally, as a licensed professional, take such a comment as an insult. To state it the way he did says that ALL licensed professionals are buffoons!!
Dennis,
I've gone back and re-read Joe's post several times, and then your responses to him.
One thing I can't figure out is ... why is the pot calling the kettle black?
YOU don't like what Joe said about electricians, yet say virtually the same thing about HIs? Give us a break. You BOTH are talking about perceptions of incompetence.
Joe said (basically) 'You guys keep us in business' - always having to write up some jerks wrong doing. and you are saying (basically) 'We keep you in business.' - always having to tell your clients that the jerk HI did not know what they were doing, look what he missed.
All I can say is the we cannot write it up in the first place unless it was there. Thus, the mystery of the chicken and the egg - which came first is solved - the electrician came first, the HI called it out as 'what was he thinking', then another electrician says 'that HI missed all this stuff'.
Know what that means? Means the first electrician was WORSE than the HI thought, and YOU confirmed it.
Originally Posted By: dbowers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
they know full well what they did is wrong but it was cheaper or easier to do it wrong AND thats how they’ve always done it.
I don't take it as a personal insult when a contractor complains about something some dumb home inspector did - I would hope that a professional contractor would not take it as a personal insult when a home inspector points out something a dumb or lazy licensed contractor did.
In the past month I've had a licensed electrician arrested by the city for doing bootleg electrical upgrades (60 amps to 100 amps for $550 - no permit - no new masthead - old lines still 7'6" off the patio after the job was complete - etc). I've also had to drive 45 miles 1-way to show the licensed HVAC contractor how to identify a hole in the furnace heat exchanger that the contractor said didn't exist.
In the past 3 months, I've had to show 2 different code inspectors that the house they just gave a final OK on had 3-4 significant concerns (like neutrals and ground wires in a sub-panel on the same buss), or window flashings 2" short of covering the window, or no combustion air in an enclosed utility room, or missing step/counter flashings at a chimney.
The point of this is - none of us are perfect. If I'm wrong - learn from it. But if you know you're right and the contractor, code inspector, etc is wrong - don't back up and WIMP OUT. Lay it out - show your client the technical reason they're wrong and then let your client make their own decision as to what they're going to do.
Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Dennis,
Are you having a bad day? Those posts were pretty out of character for you but please bear and I will attempt to explain.
Certainly it was not my intention, or ever will be my intention to berate, belittle or demean any professional. It was my intention to point out that not all professionals take the care and pride in their installations to ensure they meet the minimum requirements of the codes.
Just as you have them in your industry, we have them in ours. Licensing only makes it worse, because it is setting the bare minimum of standards, just like the codes.
My apologies for having offended you, or any other professional as it certainly was not my intention. I believe Jerry P was following what I was saying rather well so I don't really feel the need to re-state what has already been said.
Just for the record Dennis, I don't really consider myself all that great of an inspector. I am a rather average inspector. I don't lay claim to know everything or anywhere even close. I am one of those inspectors that learns something new every day and I don't have that pride problem asking for help when I don't know.
I hope your day gets better! 
Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Dennis,
I don't believe there is any need to apologize, I can personally relate to what you are saying. It is a tough job giving people the best possible installation and doing so at a price that will keep you competitive with the others around you.
I, and I am sure others here, can understand why you felt insulted. It was not my intention to insinuate that you were not a qualified electrician, doing your job carefully and professionally.
Have a good day! 
Originally Posted By: dbozek This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
color=blue][/color]Nice panel there Erby…however them wires tied together on the side…well…ummm and them grounds tied in with them neutrals…ummm…oh nevermind…nice panel even if it is a Cutler-Hammer.
– You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they should and could do for themselves. Abraham Lincoln
Originally Posted By: dbozek This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Oh yea and lets not forget that the neutral wire is not properly identified…umm…that lectrician didn’t really do that right…whats wrong with these licensed professionals these days?
– You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they should and could do for themselves. Abraham Lincoln
Originally Posted By: dbozek This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe…
That is why they make supply houses and hardware stores 
I kinda ran out of white tape one day but still managed to mark the neutral with a couple of wraps. The inspector that checked my work a few days later actually told me he wanted the tape to wrap around the wire all the way into the pipe
It is really a funny thing though....how many sparkies wrap their neutrals in odd ways. There is the split wrap...where the tape does not overlap giving the neutral a zebra effect. Then there is the "omg did you use a whole roll of tape" wrap......where the tape is wrapped continously in the same place. There is the sideways wrap....where a sparky takes a piece of tape and stretches it sideways across the wire and then folds the edges over. Lastly this is the best.....I actually seen a neutral coated with what looked like white out 
-- You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they should and could do for themselves. Abraham Lincoln
Ok maybe I went a bit overboard…apologies accepted if you all accept mine that is 