Should either of these be requirements of membership?

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Ok, I get it. I’m not feeling as dense this morning. Must be that brick I found on the front lawn.


Then if it is going to be a separate exam or exams, say part one or part two, should there be a time frame within which to pass the second exam? Or is it just that someone can't be a member until part two is passed?

Oh, I just love red tape. I should have gone into politics. Creating bureaucratic messes, spending other peoples money.....what's not to like ![icon_twisted.gif](upload://xjO326gspdTNE5QS3UTl0a0Rtvy.gif)


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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Within the first 30 days of membership? Independents who join NACHI should get a grip on our COE and an inspector can get into some trouble his first year, so lets get them completed in the first 30 days.


Nick


Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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That sounds like a good plan.


Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi Nick,


what is wrong with the concept of integrating the SOP/Coe questions into the initial membership exam, we already publish both documents in the public areas of the site, so new members could swot them up and do the whole thing in one fell swoop.
lets get it right neither of the standards is exactly rocket science.

regards

Gerry


--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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Gerry:


Nothing wrong with it other than it would make our entrance exam association specific. We would then be judging non-NACHI members on their answers to NACHI-specific questions.

What if instead we just make the Ethics and SOP quizzes additional membership entrance requirements above and beyond our exam?

There are other reasons not to mix them too.

First, Community Colleges and other training schools have adopted NACHI's Online Inspector Examination namely because it ISN'T association specific. Because it is online and free they can proctor it on campus for college credit.

Second, there is some marketing benefit to NACHI in having 2 separate additional requirements of membership as opposed to lumping them all together in on big exam.

Lastly, other than the weakness evaluation color pie chart at the end of our examination, the exam really isn't very educational. We don't tell non-members which ones they missed specifically. However, the two quizzes are very interactive and specifically point out exact errors an inspector is making. Something a grade-only result can't offer.

Nick


Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi Nick,


Ok I understand some of your logic, especially from a marketing stand point, but if we are requiring members to adhere to our SOP/COE then the requirement should be for them to have passed a test of proficiency in those areas prior to becoming members.

Here's my thoughts Keep the current inspection entrance exam, but also require that potential new members pass an integrated SOP/COE exam as well, the 2 issues are really indivisible anyway.

That would mean that when someone takes and passes our Inspection exam and we send them an e-mail of congratulations with an invite to join us that we also spell out in that e-mail that they have to also pass our SOP/COE exam.

Surely that is a win/win situation we raise our admittance criteria, have yet again higher entrance standards than the competition and we ensure that new members are understanding of the minimum standards that they must adhere to. See any flaws in that argument ??

Regards

Gerry


--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

Originally Posted By: psabados
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Gerry,


Very good plan and it does raise the bar

Paul


Originally Posted By: mbailey
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Yes Gerry?actually many flaws ? just depends on how far one wants to go and their point of view. icon_biggrin.gif


Sorry guys ? still have my devils advocate hat on?.

Ponder this?If I belong to another association and NACHI - and I am choosing to follow their SOP and COE (not NACHI?s) ? why is NACHI penalizing me by making me take a NACHI specific test? After all I am following a national home inspector organizations SOP and COE, just not NACHI?s.

LET me re-phrase ?why is NACHI making me take a NACHI specific test over an SOP and COE that I am not going to use anyway?

I agree it is very important to have SOP and COE ? but if I belong to many associations?to dictate which SOP and COE I follow is non-sense. The entrance standard should remain the NACHI Online Inspector Examination.

There are many reasons why one joins an association?


--
Mark Bailey
Stonegate Property Inspections LLC
Ponca, NE

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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A member of 2 associations could, and in fact must, comply with both by doing whatever is most restrictive.


For instance if association A requires you to do X and association B does not require you to do X... you still must do X if you are a member of both.

It looks like our COE & SOP quizzes will be membership requirements but at what stage? I like within 72 hours of joining.

Nick


Originally Posted By: mbailey
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Not trying to be argumentative - must be that damn hat!?but where is something that states I must comply with more than one associations, or two associations, etc… SOP if I belong to more than one org? I pick one SOP and follow it.


What if I joined NACHI and the HI company I work for is ASHI and inspects by their SOP? I have to follow and work to ASHI standards.

What if you are joining because you want an be an HI ? signed up for training but no skills, no knowledge? No idea of what you are doing but made to learn an SOP and COE that does not correlate to anything you are doing...because you have not done anything yet.. I mention this because when I joined this association was for new HI (a lot of new/newer HI?s), experienced HI?s, those wanting to be HI?s ? as long as they passed the test. We seem to have changed our focus quite a bit.
Not just those that could pass the exam AND had knowledge of OUR SOP and COE.

For the SOP and COE if these exams become part of the membership requirements ? what if you do not reach the finish line ? are you not allowed membership into NACHI?


--
Mark Bailey
Stonegate Property Inspections LLC
Ponca, NE

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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you? I believe so, but you can ask Joe Farsetta.


Anyway, as a point of logic: If association A makes you pick up blocks X&Y, and association B makes you pickup blocks Y&Z, and both associations insist you abide by their rules, then you could fulfil the requirements of both associations by picking up blocks X,Y, & Z. In other words, you don't violate one associations SOP or COE by completely fulfilling the SOP or COE requirements of another.

Even simpler put: Don't worry too much about it. You're fine.

Nick


Originally Posted By: mbailey
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Nick,


Thanks for the discussion. Took that damn devils advocate hate off and now I am OK... ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)


--
Mark Bailey
Stonegate Property Inspections LLC
Ponca, NE

Originally Posted By: lwilliams
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Well Nick,


I have read over the reply I sent in but I am not sure why you found it worthy of keeping? ![icon_question.gif](upload://t2zemjDOQRADd4xSC3xOot86t0m.gif) I am glad you enjoyed it though... I am looking forward to the canadian link working (been there already) and thank you to Chris for his time and effort. We may be few in Canada but we are mighty. Thanks for the warm welcome Robert!


Originally Posted By: chorne
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Hi,


Nick, When I said not necessary I should have said,

I don't think that it is necessary for the 2 items to
be required.

Sorry for the misunderstanding ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)

Carla


Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Carla does bring up an interesting point of view. If we need to pass the knowledge test to become a member, and we have to sign an affidavit, and agree to follow the code of ethics and the SOP, what purpose does the test really have.


I could probably print both even though printing them would kill a forest of trees with their current format in print, and in a cumbersome manner find the answers to pass the tests.

What are the penalties applied if a member doesn't follow the standards? Is it a written apology, 30 day suspension, kick them out? How does NACHI find out? Do we send Geraldo Rivera out to investigate and report?

Upon further review, my opinion has changed. I don't think we need to pass these items just for the sake of "higher entrance standards". If we are good enough to get in and agree to follow the standards and ethics, that should be good enough.

The tools are great for self evaluation, leave them that way. ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

Body armour on, fire away.


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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is in violation.


The SOP quiz is to help alert the good member who believes in his heart that he is covering everything necessary within our SOP... but actually is overlooking something.

They are really both forms of continuing education (which we already require).

I know I'm weak at HVAC and so seek out HVAC education. The good honest inspectors in the 2 examples I gave above... aren't aware of their weaknesses and so probably never (voluntarily) read the SOP or COE, and go on assuming they're fine.

Requiring completion of these two tools would really help these fellas/gals, who unbeknownst to them, really need that help.

Nick


Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Nick,


Didn't you say that the "Newbies" typically follow the SOP closely, while we veterans tend to stray.

One reason I think they should be left as a tool. Or are you saying that we must all pass these once a year also?


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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I did say that newbies typically follow the SOP more closely in my opinion. Simply because they don’t know anything else. Some veterans have been doing inspections for 30 years, well before we even had an SOP.


On your second point: I don't want to use the word "pass" because there is no cut off score and the real purpose is mostly educational. I prefer the word "take."

Nick


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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Their true benefit comes from failing them, not passing them.


Nick


Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
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A couple of issues with the SOP questions:


Spelling. What does the "des" at the end of this heating question signify?

Heating
The inspector shall inspect the heating system and describe the energy source and heating method using normal operating controls.des


How about adding a link to the downloadable 8 page SOP in PDF Format so people can study it ahead of or during the exam.


--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky

www.b4uclose.com