Signs of the Times...

I’ll pop on down to the Casino and ask?:slight_smile:


Apparently you are have trouble understanding that Joe was speaking of this country as it presently exists.:stuck_out_tongue:

It may be better for both of us if you let Joe speak for Joe, and you just comment on what you understand Michael. Probably cut down on your posts quite a bit.:stuck_out_tongue:

Ah yes, the pot calling the kettle black with a dose of sardonic humor. Mr. nearly 3,000 posts.:p:p:p

Ok that I understand.:smiley:


I don’t think everyone here understands or appreciates your humor by I do get it. The rest will just have to catch up.:wink:

Like I said, there is no good religious debate, no one benefits everyone looses and is forced to defend their beliefs against people who they would otherwise have no division with. I wish I would have said this as it sums up best how I feel… "The world is so exquisite, with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better, it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look Death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides" but alas it was not me who said this it was the late Carl Sagan.

Well Joseph, it’s safe to say that Carl Sagan now knows if his “belief” was correct. It will be the same for all use one day.

Note: Carl Sagan’s standard for “evidence” is so high that I seriously doubt his own belife’s could stand up to it.:wink:

If someone is offended or becomes emotional because of a
discussion about God then they are revealing a fear and their
own self doubt. Yes wars have been fought over women,
money, power, oil, and God. But God always gets more blame.

I say more wars have been stopped, more lives healed, more
people fed, more dreams fulfilled, more families blessed, more
mercy shown, more love displayed, because of God, God, God.
Is the cup half full or half empty? It’s how you look at life
as to what you see.

An animal looks in a mirror and cannot comprehend that
the image is indeed their own “self”, even so some are not
able to see “God”. It is not in them to see and we
should all be patient with their lack of awareness.

If there is no God then there is no good or evil and we are
just random elements surviving until BLEEP, we are gone.
What is right or wrong? Who says? It’s meaningless and
random survival. The strong survive and nothing matters.

God is seen in the order of the universe. We are not here
by accident. From the smallest sub-atomic particle to the
furthest galaxy there is systematic order and mathematical
perfection. From the concept of LOVE to the balance of
nature, there is God.

Tear apart your watch and throw it in the washing machine.
How many years will it take for the random action of the
pieces to come together and set the proper time? How
did the amazing order of all things around us come into
being from random acts that started from nothing but
chaos? It take blind faith to think that.

You see, when we say God does not exist, it’s like that
cat looking in the mirror and not knowing his own image.
Something is missing in the cats brain. We as humans
can see the cats missing ability to “see”… even though
the cat would swear that it can “see” just as good as
anyone. Something is still missing and it is a pity.

Jesus said “men will not come to the light because they are
afraid that their deeds will be corrected”. (John 3:16-20)
People are afraid of God and fear looking at themselves in
the mirror of truth. They only way to come into the light is
first to see your need to be truthful with the person in
the mirror. God does not condemn us, but is trying to
save us from our self.

15 minutes after death will seem like an eternity to the
man without God on the other side. I know God is real,
I talked to Him this morning.

Don’t know about anyone else but my bull**** meter is pegged.

Stephen Hawking’s A Brief History of Time [1] has been a record breaking best seller. A note in his later collection, Black Holes and Baby Universes [2] reveals that A Brief History remained on the bestseller list of The New York Times for fifty-three weeks, that as of February 1993 it had been on The Sunday Times best seller list for 205 weeks, and that translations into 33 languages other than English had already been published (p. 29). Also in that later collection, Hawking remarks parenthetically: “In the proof stage I nearly cut the last sentence in the book… Had I done so, the sales might have been halved.”[3] To appreciate that sentence it is necessary to read the whole paragraph with which the earlier book concludes:

However, if we discover a complete theory, it should in time be understandable by everyone, not just by a few scientists. Then we shall all, philosophers, scientists and just ordinary people, be able to take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason – for then we should know the mind of God. (p.193)

Also note:
Albert Einstein’s famous comment, “God does not play dice with the universe.”

There is a special forum on the board that is for religious or political discussions or other items that are well known to cause heated debate. That is the “Not for Everyone” forum. Many do not care for the religious or political speak.

Lets keep the “hot topics”, and we all know what they are, on the not for everyone forum.

I think I have discovered a market within the membership for whom I can develop products and also become a NACHI vendor.

For my first venture, I will develop and sell a tape measure that is marked in cubits.

Any takers?

Einstein did once comment that “God does not play dice [with the universe].” This quotation is commonly mentioned to show that Einstein believed in the Christian God. Used this way, it is out of context; it refers to Einstein’s refusal to accept the uncertainties indicated by quantum theory. Furthermore, Einstein’s religious background was Jewish rather than Christian.

A better quotation showing what Einstein thought is the following: “I believe in Spinoza’s God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings.”

Einstein was unable to accept Quantum Theory because of his belief in an objective, orderly reality: a reality which would not be subject to random events and which would not be dependent upon the observer. He believed that Quantum Mechanics was incomplete, and that a better theory would have no need for statistical interpretations. So far no better theory has been found and evidence suggests that it never will be.

A longer quote from Einstein appears in Science, Philosophy, and Religion, A Symposium, published by the Conference on Science, Philosophy, and Religion in Their Relation to the Democratic Way of Life, Inc., New York, 1941. In it he says:

The more a man is imbued with the ordered regularity of all events the firmer becomes his conviction that there is no room left by the side of this ordered regularity for causes of a different nature. For him neither the rule of human nor the rule of divine will exists as an independent cause of natural events. To be sure, the doctrine of a personal God interfering with natural events could never be refuted, in the real sense, by science, for this doctrine can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific knowledge has not yet been able to set foot.

But I am convinced that such behavior on the part of representatives of religion would not only be unworthy but also fatal. For a doctrine which is to maintain itself not in clear light but only in the dark, will of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable harm to human progress. In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers of religion must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal God, that is, give up that source of fear and hope which in the past placed such vast power in the hands of priests. In their labors they will have to avail themselves of those forces which are capable of cultivating the Good, the True, and the Beautiful in humanity itself. This is, to be sure, a more difficult but an incomparably more worthy task …

Einstein has also said:

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

The latter quote is from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, and published by Princeton University Press. Also from the same book:

I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it.

Of course, the fact that Einstein chose not to believe in Christianity does not in itself imply that Christianity is false.


I like the view of an “orderly arrangement God” without
the “personal God” getting involved. This is a level of truth
and most dwell there. At least God is given credit.

Jesus came to make it personal to those who want it.
If they do not, thats OK. The orderly Creator of all things
does not get His feelings hurt. He likes to hide himself
in the cloak of His divine order and does not force anyone
to come closer, except by their desire.

It is God who chooses to reveal Himself just as the teacher
who selects a worthy student for advanced studies. The
students desire to learn compels the teachers heart to
respond. The teacher gives everyone their desire.

Your desire becomes your habitation in this life and the one
to come. Simple.


Believe whatever you will I’m not interested, just wanted to straighten you out on Einstein his idea of god is order proved through scientific testing. Appears he like Sagan won’t be in your heaven either, no death bed conversion. Narrow is the way, Cheers

Thanks Joe,

We are all on our way to the NATURE we create within us.
That NATURE is our HEAVEN or HELL. This is our final

Yes you are right, “narrow is the way”.

Cheers and thanks for keeping a good spirit.

Where is Todd? We need a POLL on this.


Or something like this.Do you guys think we should add sexual orientation?

Personally I’m Greek Orthodox! and straight.