Originally Posted By: bhendry This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Here’s a Sparky issue:
For our purposes - this is a hypothetical situation. The names were changed to protect the innocent.
We inspected a house today in a new neighborhood that had two nearby houses recently catch fire - reportedly due to electrical problems - per the client. These are $500k nice area/nice looking/gated community houses. Client says the fire investigator reported the cause to be an electric problem - one fire related to a bedroom lamp, the other to attic wiring. We drove by one that had fire damage. BTW - we weren't there specifically for the fire/electric thing.
My questions:
We read up to 15% voltage drop on back stabbed utility outlets in several locations using a 15A test. I would want all the outlets rewired - what say you?
The multiple panels were all correct. The ceiling light cans were rated for direct contact. The fans were high dollar and looked like pro installed. Everything except the back stabbed outlets looked good. What else would you look for - specifically.
I'd appreciate a constructive comment or 2 from the Sparkies.
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
As a sparky if I was called to this home and was given this same info, I would definitely be recommending the opening of all electrical boxes to check for bad connections.
Given the string of 'bad luck' in the neighborhood I would want to look at everything including splices at light fixtures.
Also without a doubt I would recommend having the back stabbed connections eliminated, I would splice the wires in the box together in the box with a pigtail for the outlet.
But as an HI can you or should you say anything more than have a sparky look into it?
Originally Posted By: Randy Flockton This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
A 15% voltage drop is generally unacceptable as this is below operationg range for 120V appliances unless voltage is a little on the high side at the panel… (120V - 15% = 102V Not functional) (130V - 15% = 110.5V lower than average, but functional)
Are we talking about a really large house where these circuits might be a little long for the conductor size (14AWG if backstabbed into current devices) Generally acceptable voltage here would be between 110-125V loaded or not… If you’re not getting this voltage under a load the circuit was to be designed for, the circuit needs to be rerun to a closer panel if available or with larger conductors to prevent the undervoltage…
If this is a short run, the voltage drop could very well be a sign of trouble brewing in a weak connection or possible damage to a conductor in the wall...
Considering the neighborhood propensity to electrical fires, I'll 2nd Bob on opening boxes & other splice locations.. Something needs to be done to alleviate the voltage drop issue,
This brings to mind a service call I went to.. 3 year old house, fire in a kitchen outlet, original electrician never tightened the terminal screws down on the wires where 12AWG was used! Found out this wasn't the first fire in this neighborhood!
Always best to err on the side of caution! 
-Randy
-- "Prices subject to change with customers additude"
Originally Posted By: bhendry This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hi Bob,
I feel sure that if you went through the house the client would get first class service guaranteed. Thanks for the input.
I would not want the electrical liability in that neighborhood!
Just thinking here... what about meggering all the branches. I never heard of an electrician doing that but wouldn't that be useful in this situation? Ever get any useful information shooting a Time Domain Reflectometer (TDR) down a conductor?
Also just thinking... If the problem was happening to me, I think I would want a representative number of utility outlets, switches, wire, wire nuts, etc. sent to a lab. I don't think I would want to write the check for the lab fee though. The idea of the lab would be to identify defective components.
I see a lot of houses with 15%, 12%, 17%, outlets with a 15A Suretest. They're all back stabbed outlets. Ain't that just wrong - meaning that shouldn't there be some effort/movement to eliminate that practice?
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hi Bill and Thanks but Randy would hook you right up too, electricians seem to come in to flavors “hacks” and “anal retentive PITAs” I put my self in the latter category much more than the other and I bet Randy does too.
bhendry wrote:
Just thinking here... what about meggering all the branches. I never heard of an electrician doing that but wouldn't that be useful in this situation? Ever get any useful information shooting a Time Domain Reflectometer (TDR) down a conductor?
I have only used a mega on transformers, and to be honest I am not familiar with all that can be done with one.
What I know them for is insulation breakdown not for loose connections.
IMO that sure test sounds like a pretty good indicator of connections once you roughly figure the voltage drop from the length.
bhendry wrote:
Also just thinking... If the problem was happening to me, I think I would want a representative number of utility outlets, switches, wire, wire nuts, etc. sent to a lab. I don't think I would want to write the check for the lab fee though. The idea of the lab would be to identify defective components.
If you question it replace it, I could re-device a whole house for the price of that lab work.
bhendry wrote:
I see a lot of houses with 15%, 12%, 17%, outlets with a 15A Suretest. They're all back stabbed outlets. Ain't that just wrong - meaning that shouldn't there be some effort/movement to eliminate that practice?
15%, 12%, 17% That is depressing and IMO is wrong, (not an NEC violation) of course I am funny that way I have 10 AWG in a lot of the circuits in my home, and it is a small 1.5 story.
You would be the hero of many of us electricians if you could get back stabs / speed wires eliminated.
Currently allowed for 14 AWG previously allowed for 12 AWG.
A house I grew up in had aluminum wire branch circuits, back stabbed into the devices, protected by the ever popular FPE Stab Loc panel.
Glad I lived throgh that. 
These back stabs are not going away and wire connectors that work the same are now the hot item.
These new "Wagos" will accept 14 and 12 AWG solid and stranded wires, and depending on the model will connect 2 to 6 conductors.
Once these start burning up we electricians will have job security replacing these with wirenuts.
