# Sub Panel Ground Requirements **URL:** \ **Category:** Electrical Inspections\ **Created:** [March 2, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938 "2013-03-02T00:40:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dkutchin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dkutchin/32/178683_2.png) [@dkutchin](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dkutchin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938/1 "2013-03-02T00:40:50Z")
House with sub panel 40 feet from main in same basement. Subpanel has neutrals isolated. Grounds are separate and ground bar is bonded to panel. There are 9 breakers in the sub panel. No main shutoff in the sub…only the 100 amp feeder breaker in the main. Since they are in the same building, I think this is OK? Can someone confirm? Is a separate ground required from the sub panel to the main? ---
**Author:** ![jjimenez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@jjimenez](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jjimenez)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938/2 "2013-03-02T00:42:56Z")
Not only is not required, its not allowed. It also doesn’t need a “main breaker” If it was part of a detached structure, then it would need its own grounding electrode and grounding electrode conductor. Edit: Disregard. I thought he was asking if the sub panel needed a separate ground as in a GEC to an electrode. ---
**Author:** ![dkutchin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dkutchin/32/178683_2.png) [@dkutchin](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dkutchin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938/3 "2013-03-02T00:56:36Z")
> [@jjimenez](#): > > Not only is not required, its not allowed. > > It also doesn’t need a “main breaker” > > If it was part of a detached structure, then it would need its own grounding electrode and grounding electrode conductor. Thanks…do you have a link to a reference on this? I’m seeing conflicting information. ---
**Author:** ![dkutchin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dkutchin/32/178683_2.png) [@dkutchin](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dkutchin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938/4 "2013-03-02T00:58:38Z")
> [@dkutchin](#): > > Thanks…do you have a link to a reference on this? I’m seeing conflicting information. Maybe I need to be more clear…the feed from the main is only 3 wire - 2 hots and neutral. No ground from main to sub. ---
**Author:** ![jjimenez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@jjimenez](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jjimenez)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938/5 "2013-03-02T01:02:57Z")
> [@dkutchin](#): > > Maybe I need to be more clear…the feed from the main is only 3 wire - 2 hots and neutral. No ground from main to sub. What kind of conduit is being used? ---
**Author:** ![hcarvajal](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/hcarvajal/32/209279_2.png) [@hcarvajal](https://forum.nachi.org/u/hcarvajal)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938/6 "2013-03-02T01:03:17Z")
Dan what is the raceway or conduit between the two panels? Metal? Bert ---
**Author:** ![hcarvajal](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/hcarvajal/32/209279_2.png) [@hcarvajal](https://forum.nachi.org/u/hcarvajal)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938/7 "2013-03-02T01:03:47Z")
Sorry Juan beat me to it. Bert ---
**Author:** ![dkutchin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dkutchin/32/178683_2.png) [@dkutchin](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dkutchin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938/8 "2013-03-02T01:07:23Z")
> [@jjimenez](#): > > What kind of conduit is being used? No conduit between the two. Large jacketed cable. ---
**Author:** ![hcarvajal](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/hcarvajal/32/209279_2.png) [@hcarvajal](https://forum.nachi.org/u/hcarvajal)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938/9 "2013-03-02T01:20:06Z")
If there’s no metal raceway between the two then the 3 wire feed is wrong. You need an EGC. Bert ---
**Author:** ![jjimenez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@jjimenez](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jjimenez)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 1:21am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938/10 "2013-03-02T01:21:18Z")
Do you have photos? ---
**Author:** ![dkutchin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dkutchin/32/178683_2.png) [@dkutchin](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dkutchin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938/11 "2013-03-02T01:24:05Z")
> [@jjimenez](#): > > Do you have photos? I will get tomorrow…just dropped off a radon CRM today and took a very quick look at the panel…will take camera back tomorrow. have a good night:) BTW…almost done with HIP template…ready to switch soon! ---
**Author:** ![hcarvajal](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/hcarvajal/32/209279_2.png) [@hcarvajal](https://forum.nachi.org/u/hcarvajal)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938/12 "2013-03-02T01:31:04Z")
Good deal Dan. Good night. Good luck with the onsite reporting. Let me know if you have any questions. Bert ---
**Author:** ![dkutchin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dkutchin/32/178683_2.png) [@dkutchin](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dkutchin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938/13 "2013-03-02T01:36:43Z")
> [@hcarvajal](#): > > Good deal Dan. Good night. Good luck with the onsite reporting. Let me know if you have any questions. > > Bert Thanks Bert… ---
**Author:** ![rmeier2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rmeier2/32/59909_2.png) [@rmeier2](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rmeier2)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938/14 "2013-03-02T02:01:09Z")
So the ground bus is not connected to anything. Is the neutral at least bonded to the enclosure? ---
**Author:** ![jjimenez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@jjimenez](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jjimenez)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938/15 "2013-03-02T02:05:43Z")
> [@Robert\_Meier](#): > > So the ground bus is not connected to anything. Is the neutral at least bonded to the enclosure? Why would the neutral be bonded to the enclosure? ---
**Author:** ![ccurrins](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/ccurrins/32/225758_2.png) [@ccurrins](https://forum.nachi.org/u/ccurrins)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938/16 "2013-03-02T03:46:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Is a separate ground required from the sub panel to the main? > [@jjimenez](#): > > Not only is not required, its not allowed. Huh? ---
**Author:** ![jjimenez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@jjimenez](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jjimenez)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938/17 "2013-03-02T03:55:25Z")
> [@ccurrins](#): > > Huh? Oh shoot. I read the question wrong. It would help if people used the correct names for things. Yes you need an equipment grounding conductor from the main to the sub panel. ---
**Author:** ![dkutchin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dkutchin/32/178683_2.png) [@dkutchin](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dkutchin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938/18 "2013-03-02T04:14:23Z")
> [@jjimenez](#): > > Oh shoot. I read the question wrong. It would help if people used the correct names for things. > > Yes you need an equipment grounding conductor from the main to the sub panel. My fault for not being concise…I’ll get better with experience. Thank you for the constructive and informative responses…all of you. ---
**Author:** ![jjimenez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@jjimenez](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jjimenez)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 4:21am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938/19 "2013-03-02T04:21:11Z")
> [@dkutchin](#): > > My fault for not being concise…I’ll get better with experience. Thank you for the constructive and informative responses…all of you. The only reason I always try to use the correct terminology is because I once made an embarrassing mistake. Ill never make that mistake again. I don’t even like calling equipment grounding conductors as such because its a misnomer. It was my fault btw. Your question was pretty clear. I just read it too quickly. ---
**Author:** ![jpope](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jpope/32/59425_2.png) [@jpope](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jpope)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 4:22am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938/20 "2013-03-02T04:22:20Z")
All circuits that originate from the sub panel are “ungrounded” circuits, based on the description you’ve given. If you have a three-wire feed (H+H+N) with no EGC, the fact that the circuit grounds are bonded to panel means nothing. There needs to be a connection back to the service equipment. If you have a NM cable assembly feeding the sub panel, it needs to be rewired. The EGC must be an integrated part of the assembly. You can’t just run a separate EGC. [Next page](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panel-ground-requirements/75938.md?page=2)