# Sub panels and grounding **URL:** \ **Category:** Public Archive\ **Created:** [September 28, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969 "2004-09-28T00:00:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/f/df7ced6a9ca05e7c93fa949dfc12a8c10d06c887.png) [@system](https://forum.nachi.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969/1 "2004-09-28T00:00:00Z")
**Originally Posted By: smcintire** **This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.** * * * [http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/P1010003.JPG](http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/P1010003.JPG) ] [Image: [http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/P10100041.JPG](http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/P10100041.JPG) ] [Image: [http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/P10100021.JPG](http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/P10100021.JPG) ] * * * ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/f/df7ced6a9ca05e7c93fa949dfc12a8c10d06c887.png) [@system](https://forum.nachi.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969/2 "2004-09-28T00:00:00Z")
**Originally Posted By: jpope** **This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.** * * * If it is, in fact, a sub panel (equipment panel) in the same building as the service panel, it’s wrong, plain and simple. Neutrals must be isolated from the panel box and the grounds bonded to the box. It should be fed by four wires from the service panel (H+H+N+G) or, three wires (H+H+N) in a metal conduit as the EGC. * * * -- Jeff Pope JPI Home Inspection Service "At JPI, we'll help you look better" (661) 212-0738 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/f/df7ced6a9ca05e7c93fa949dfc12a8c10d06c887.png) [@system](https://forum.nachi.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969/3 "2004-09-28T00:00:00Z")
**Originally Posted By: smcintire** **This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.** * * * [http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/P1010005.JPG](http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/P1010005.JPG) ] * * * ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/f/df7ced6a9ca05e7c93fa949dfc12a8c10d06c887.png) [@system](https://forum.nachi.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969/4 "2004-09-28T00:00:00Z")
**Originally Posted By: jpope** **This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.** * * * Your reference would be IRC 3507.2 and NEC 250.24(A)(5) which prohibit regrounding of the neutral after the service, with exceptions for separate buildings. * * * – Jeff Pope JPI Home Inspection Service “At JPI, we’ll help you look better” (661) 212-0738 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/f/df7ced6a9ca05e7c93fa949dfc12a8c10d06c887.png) [@system](https://forum.nachi.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969/5 "2004-09-28T00:00:00Z")
**Originally Posted By: jpope** **This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.** * * * I’ll be waiting for one of our resident Sparkies to come in and blow holes in my reference and interpretation ![icon_wink.gif](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/c/7/c780e395059a8e0dcd430a029eb634655c8f86e8.gif) , but as HI’s, that is how we should call it. * * * – Jeff Pope JPI Home Inspection Service “At JPI, we’ll help you look better” (661) 212-0738 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/f/df7ced6a9ca05e7c93fa949dfc12a8c10d06c887.png) [@system](https://forum.nachi.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969/6 "2004-09-28T00:00:00Z")
**Originally Posted By: smcintire** **This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.** * * * Jeff, thanks I just never find these correct. It’s kind of like the saying how can so many people be wrong and I am right, just makes me wonder sometimes if I am missing something. thank you. * * * ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/f/df7ced6a9ca05e7c93fa949dfc12a8c10d06c887.png) [@system](https://forum.nachi.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969/7 "2004-09-28T00:00:00Z")
**Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell** **This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.** * * * | **jpope wrote:** | | I'll be waiting for one of our resident Sparkies to come in and blow holes in my reference and interpretation ![icon\_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif) , but as HI's, that is how we should call it. | It works for me * * * ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/f/df7ced6a9ca05e7c93fa949dfc12a8c10d06c887.png) [@system](https://forum.nachi.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969/8 "2004-09-28T00:00:00Z")
**Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson** **This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.** * * * Works for me too. Well done Jeff * * * – Ryan Jackson, Salt Lake City ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/f/df7ced6a9ca05e7c93fa949dfc12a8c10d06c887.png) [@system](https://forum.nachi.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969/9 "2004-09-28T00:00:00Z")
**Originally Posted By: bbadger** **This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.** * * * Jeff, Do you want to be a electrician in Mass.? Of course you will have to adjust to the white stuff that falls part of the year. ![icon\_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif) * * * -- Bob Badger Electrical Construction & Maintenance [Moderator at ECN](http://electrical-contractor.net/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/f/df7ced6a9ca05e7c93fa949dfc12a8c10d06c887.png) [@system](https://forum.nachi.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969/10 "2004-09-28T00:00:00Z")
**Originally Posted By: jpope** **This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.** * * * | **bbadger wrote:** | | Jeff, Do you want to be a electrician in Mass.? Of course you will have to adjust to the white stuff that falls part of the year. ![icon\_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif) | I don't do well in temps below 60 degrees But thanks for the invite * * * -- Jeff Pope JPI Home Inspection Service "At JPI, we'll help you look better" (661) 212-0738 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/f/df7ced6a9ca05e7c93fa949dfc12a8c10d06c887.png) [@system](https://forum.nachi.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969/11 "2004-09-28T00:00:00Z")
**Originally Posted By: Russell Frame** **This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.** * * * | **jpope wrote:** | | If it is, in fact, a sub panel (equipment panel) in the same building as the service panel, it's wrong, plain and simple. Neutrals must be isolated from the panel box and the grounds bonded to the box. It should be fed by four wires from the service panel (H+H+N+G) or, three wires (H+H+N) in a metal conduit as the EGC. | An academic question. What if there are only a few 120v circuits in the sub? Do you still have to feed it with multiple hots? * * * ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/f/df7ced6a9ca05e7c93fa949dfc12a8c10d06c887.png) [@system](https://forum.nachi.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969/12 "2004-09-28T00:00:00Z")
**Originally Posted By: jpope** **This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.** * * * | **Russell Frame wrote:** | | An academic question. What if there are only a few 120v circuits in the sub? Do you still have to feed it with multiple hots? | I would think not. So long as the breakers are on the same side ![icon\_rolleyes.gif](upload://iqxt7ABYC2TEBomNkCmZARIrQr6.gif) But that would just be silly, now wouldn't it? * * * -- Jeff Pope JPI Home Inspection Service "At JPI, we'll help you look better" (661) 212-0738 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/f/df7ced6a9ca05e7c93fa949dfc12a8c10d06c887.png) [@system](https://forum.nachi.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969/13 "2004-09-28T00:00:00Z")
**Originally Posted By: ddavis** **This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.** * * * This seems to be old install with a sub panel. This needs to be updated. * * * ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/f/df7ced6a9ca05e7c93fa949dfc12a8c10d06c887.png) [@system](https://forum.nachi.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969/14 "2004-09-28T00:00:00Z")
**Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson** **This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.** * * * Jeff: Typically breakers on the same side would be on alternating legs or phases. Think about a typical 2 pole breaker. * * * – Ryan Jackson, Salt Lake City ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/f/df7ced6a9ca05e7c93fa949dfc12a8c10d06c887.png) [@system](https://forum.nachi.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969/15 "2004-09-28T00:00:00Z")
**Originally Posted By: jpope** **This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.** * * * | **Ryan Jackson wrote:** | | Jeff: Typically breakers on the same side would be on alternating legs or phases. Think about a typical 2 pole breaker. | ![icon\_redface.gif](upload://f7DX2EWhmUfsDapWaYT3oJHMCj1.gif) I knew that. Friggen trick question * * * -- Jeff Pope JPI Home Inspection Service "At JPI, we'll help you look better" (661) 212-0738 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/f/df7ced6a9ca05e7c93fa949dfc12a8c10d06c887.png) [@system](https://forum.nachi.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969/16 "2004-09-28T00:00:00Z")
**Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson** **This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.** * * * ![icon_lol.gif](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/f/9/f9d92d0317184e74bf4af4a8b30106d80406969c.gif) Yeah, I know you knew that. Thats why I had to jump on it before you caught it and edited it. ![icon_lol.gif](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/f/9/f9d92d0317184e74bf4af4a8b30106d80406969c.gif) * * * – Ryan Jackson, Salt Lake City ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/f/df7ced6a9ca05e7c93fa949dfc12a8c10d06c887.png) [@system](https://forum.nachi.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969/17 "2004-09-28T00:00:00Z")
**Originally Posted By: Russell Frame** **This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.** * * * ![icon_lol.gif](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/f/9/f9d92d0317184e74bf4af4a8b30106d80406969c.gif) * * * ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/f/df7ced6a9ca05e7c93fa949dfc12a8c10d06c887.png) [@system](https://forum.nachi.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969/18 "2004-09-29T00:00:00Z")
**Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman** **This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.** * * * Steve, They can easily convert that panel to two bars (1 neutral, 1 equipment ground) by removing the metal jumper bar between them. As Jeff noted, the bonding of the enclosure must be on the equipment ground bar, not the neutral bar. Seperating the wires won't be too tough either. Getting the 4th wire in for the equipment grounds will be the hard part. * * * ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/f/df7ced6a9ca05e7c93fa949dfc12a8c10d06c887.png) [@system](https://forum.nachi.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969/19 "2004-09-29T00:00:00Z")
**Originally Posted By: jpeck** **This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.** * * * | **Brian A. Goodman wrote:** | | Steve, They can easily convert that panel to two bars (1 neutral, 1 equipment ground) by removing the metal jumper bar between them. | Brian, I will re-phrase that for you. They can easily convert that panel to two bars (1 neutral, 1 equipment ground) by REPLACING the metal jumper bar between them with the plastic bar made for that purpose. * * * -- Jerry Peck South Florida ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/d/f/df7ced6a9ca05e7c93fa949dfc12a8c10d06c887.png) [@system](https://forum.nachi.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969/20 "2004-09-29T00:00:00Z")
**Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman** **This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.** * * * Jerry, I’ve never seen a plastic bar made for that purpose. The only reason it’s there to start with is to provide a conductive path between the two bars, it serves no other purpose that I know of. Take it out and you’re done. * * * [Next page](https://forum.nachi.org/t/sub-panels-and-grounding/178969.md?page=2)