Texas Atty. General Renders Opinion about Liability Insurance

The problem is the person in question can get insurance but it is very expensive.

Kudos to TAREI on their goals. I will support them but I remain doubtful. We are fighting a big political money machine and just don’t have the resources.

JM and I are cool. We love to spar. TY for your support.

There are two sides to every story.

From my point of view, the E&O issue will seem like nothing, in a few
years, as the HI industry matures into the same cycle that other professional
fields have gone through. Regardless of why, who and how come…
it is happening.

We will see nationwide HI requirements increase, testing will get harder,
E&O will be required everywhere… just as some of the other
professionals fields have evolved.

I am not choosing sides and endorsing the motives and political
implications that may be part of this intricate process. But I am
not surprised to see this evolution.

I am simply looking at it and realize it is no big deal. It can be
overcome and dealt with, as it is by professionals in various fields
all across the country.

Yes, you can pull out personal hardships stories of people along
the way that will not make it as testing gets harder, qualifications get
more difficult and the cost of business (E&O) rises. Life is not
fair, even if I don’t like to be that way.

To paint me as “uncaring” for these poor souls that go out of
business and a “patsy”… seem a little melodramatic to me…

If I feel that E&O is not a big deal, and the John C. wants to
convert that into evidence that I am a shallow patsy that has
no love in his heart for the guys that go out of business… that
seems a little disingenuous to me.

Painting yourself on the moral high ground as the one who really
cares is in poor taste… but this method of posturing is common to
some folks.

If John wants to sell himself as the “expert”, then he can do so
without the pious tone in his pitch. Sometimes men who have
been in the public eye, as the ones doing noble deeds, become
self righteous and proud in the process.

E&O is here, so we can keep whining or deal with it. It is
not going to go away, regardless if I like it or not. BTW…
I too have helped a lot of inspectors in the last 10 years, but
I just don’t go around tooting my horn about it.

John, “my fellow patsy” is an inclusive statement. I stand with you equal in that description. I do not believe either of us is shallow however. I acknowledge your point of view although you make statements I never said or represented.

Again, I don’t have a beef with you. I will concede defeat to your eloquent rebuttals. Best regards.

Best regards to you John … keep up all the good work. :wink:

I attended the TREC meeting today. This was the full commission meeting, not the Inspectors Advisory Committee meeting; that will be Friday. I recorded the entire 3 hour meeting then parsed the recordings for HI pertinent sections. I have posted those and have a link to them for those Texas HI’s who would like to listen to them. There are two zip files that contain a total of 5 recordings and discuss E&O, new rules, covert investigations, and one I just can’t bring myself to describe (it was a joke…not really, but it seemed like one :slight_smile: If you are a Texas inspector and would like to hear those recordings send an e-mail to mikeb@capcityinspections.com and I’ll forward the links to you. You will need a .wav player like Windows Media Player or such and turned up loud to hear all the speakers.

For example???

Real professions are involved in writing their own rules. There is nothing “professional” about HI business in any licensed state I am familiar with. Texas is arguably the worst.

no money + no votes = realtor patsies.

no money + no votes + insurance = lawyer fodder.

What professionals write their own rules, doctors, lawyers, judges???

What rules have you written?

What makes some HI more professional than the ones in Texas.?

John M wrote the following:

To my fellow inspectors: This is all sadly true. I say sadly because, as our costs, education, and testing increase, we will still grovel for the smallest piece of the real estate transaction. We kill each other over the crumbs left behind.

We need to all wake up.

Doctors run the AMA. The AMA gets a large say in medical statutes. Doctors write their own regulations. They are regulated by a board of doctors.

Lawyers run the ABA. The ABA gets a large say in legal statutes. Lawyers write their own regulations. They are regulated by a board of lawyers.

Engineers run the NSPE. NSPE gets a large say in engineering statutes. Engineers write their own regulations. They are regulated by a board of engineers.

Judges are elected in Texas. That’s another diatribe…

Spent a couple of years writing an SoP for Texas, then got my *** handed to me by TREC and TAR. Now serving on the NSPE L&GA. Ain’t obliged to say what we’re working on there.

Home Inspectors don’t run TREC. TAREI (or NACHI or ASHI or NAHI or …) get little say in statutes. Realtors write HI regulations. HI’s are regulated by a board of realtors.

(QED: One of these “professions” is not like the others)

John, I agree totally that HI E&O is inevitable. However, the “who, why and how come” is rather germane to understanding the situation. TTLA could never sneak a midnight insurance provision for one of the above-named groups.

I answered your questions. Can you answer mine? TIA,

Russell in BubbaLand

Doctors get sued at a much higher ratio than inspectors. They pay huge insurance
premiums. Why did they do that to themselves, if they control so much?

Lawyers appear to be the most untrustworthy worthy group of any profession.
So much for being in charge of the rules.

Engineers are a dime a dozen in some areas. I have not met many who are good
home inspectors. I have had to over rule some of them on more than one occasion
and won. I hope they write some rules about common sense. I know an Engineer
who left the field to build boat docks. He makes more money now.

We won’t talk about Judges… agreed.

If you dig a little deeper, you will find special interest seek to manipulate
all of the professional fields. None of the above are really controlling
much of anything. Follow the money. Inspite of all of this, there is a
an order to the entire mess.

They all have to pay E&O. So much for writing their own rules.

I am sorry you had to spend so much time writing SoP, just to have your
work thrown out. Thank you for your effort.

No laws that have been written make a Texas Inspector less professional
than any other inspector… IMHO. Realtors don’t like my breed and
so far have not discoverd a way to write a rule to make me go away.

What was your question?

Apparently you aren’t reading on the subject. Texas doctors just got their total liability limited to $250K by state law. Their insurance just dropped by 20% and the state board is overloaded with licenses transferring to Texas.

Harris polls shows them toward the bottom in professional esteem. Take a WILD guess which profession comes in last. :wink:

I’d rather be building anything right now. :smiley:

Yes, the how, why and how come is pretty fundamental to seeing the order.

Wrong. HI’s are the only group required to carry professional indemnification.

Thanks. Tuition in the school of life.

We have to agree to disagree, but we are a laughingstock even on this board. North Carolina and Kentucky are rapidly approaching a similar level of absurdity. Nevada is just plain crazy.

John, they do NOT want us to go away. They want us to take the heat from remorseful buyers. That is the whole reason this business exists (and Realtors keep regulatory control).

I asked for examples. I think you have answered in context, thanks.

But you cannot cite doctors or lawyers. They may carry E&O for business reasons (wish we had that kind of cash flow, eh?) and they are VERY effective at limiting their liability by statute and regulation.

My counter-example would be Texas Association of Builders and TRCC :shock:

RS

I am proud to be a professional Texas home inspector.
Any problem with that?

Man, I can’t parse the embedded quotes. Will start anew.

Doctors get sued more ofter than inspectors

Show your data. Per customer, no way. Per dollar, no way. Per year, probably comparable. After E&O our incidence will increase.

Doctors have radically limited their liability by STATUTE here. That is extraordinary and totally supports my observations.

If a doctor kills your kid, you can’t sue him/her for more than $250K. If I inspect a million dollar house for you, what’s my liability?

Realtors…

Bingo. Realtors are no longer listed in the Harris esteem polls. Take another wild guess why not.** ;-)**

Then do it.

I am. Just trying to earn a few pesos for materials (and more insurance).

Ditto [the hows and whys are important]

My compliments.

OK… (semantics)… they all have to pay some kind of insurance and if they controlled so much, then why did they do that to themselves. ?

Please do a little research on Texas HB 4 - 2003 (Regular Session) and its effects. What “they did to themselves” is reduce their liability at least an order of magnitude. Doctors are flocking to Texas. OB/GYN practictioners have doubled. You imply the opposite.

They do not have to pay for professional indemnification insurance. And if they (freely) decide to get it, it is much cheaper and offered by FIVE times as many carriers prior to that statute.

Outside of our little pond, the most interesting part of the new requirement for HI’s was a notable precedent in a state which generally discourages tort claims and has been specifically limiting professional liability in statutes. Except for one “profession.” :|.)

Lookit, even TAR is a little uncomfortable with this. Their agents buy insurance per transaction. If they were required to certify coverage to renew their license it would decimate their numbers, about 90% of which are non-active agents. Think about it (at least before accusing me of semantics :roll: ).

If you really want any concession we are in the same boat as doctors, show me funeral directors influencing their regulation.

I think if you take a poll on this forum you will find that the people here do not look at the inspection profession as a laughingstock.

Sure, take the poll – then correlate the responses to experience level. :twisted:

Please don’t even try to goad me into bashing inspectors. I am one. I’ve lost more skin helping other inspectors than you are aware. Last year everybody accused me of being too protective of inspectors. Hard to tell if I am working a tough room or just loitering in a mental hospital.

Your [sic]** out of touch.**

If you say so. I’m here to be enlightened. :cool:

**Please quote any law that makes Texas inspectors less professional than other inspectors. **

Texas Occupations Code Section 1102.

No derogation of Texas inspectors was intended. I am a Texas inspector (have been longer than you). My original assertion was that HI is not comparable to other “professions” and this is apparent by comparing legislative history and regulatory structures. It shouldn’t even need explanation.

Texas is a frequently cited example used by those opposed to HI regulation. You write a perfect law and xAR will simply amend it to suit their purposes. This is a juggernaut; It’s simply beyond contention.

So far you have avoided this issue and this is your primary point.

John, I have explained at least ten times by now. Take another poll.

Other jobs recognized as “professions” are not dominated by another “profession” which has inherently contrary interests.

BTW… much of the insurance being purchased by inspectors does not protect the Realtor, so they are not controlling as much as you make it out to be.

The conclusion doesn’t necessarily follow, but if you think HI E&O doesn’t protect realtors then we live in different solar systems. The requirement was enacted by TTLA - they are the most direct beneficiaries. TAR simply allowed it to happen.

It’s the law of the jungle and we are the weak.

BTW… the primary SoP that Texas goes by is almost identical to
**the one InterNACHI and other well established SoP use. **

Sorry, but that’s just plain (and patently) incorrect. -X

I know you can read, so this is a baffling claim (and somewhat off the point).

[Deleted the next couple of lines. Sheesh.]

**Yeah and look at their **reputation among consumers. Sometimes letting the fox guard the hen house ends up making the fox look even worse.

So? The fox just wants to eat the chickens. I seriously doubt it cares what they think. :|__)

Consumers have positively mortgaged their lives away to buy the builder’s product. Read a newspaper.

The most entertaining aspect of your analogy is its application to our business. Realtors regulating home inspectors…

I am proud to be a professional Texas home inspector.

Me too. But the fact that designation keeps getting easier and easier to obtain doesn’t diminish my argument one iota. Does it increase your pride?

Any problem with that?

Nope.

My only worry is that we are generating walls of text and may be boring more than a few readers. ](*,)

Russell

With comments like…

…I couldn’t possibly be bored. That’s just too funny!

Doctors nation wide had to go through horrible legal expense and hassles for years… until
reform finally gave Texas doctors some relief. They did not have much control to stop it for all those
years. Home inspectors in Texas now have to pay approx. $10-$20 per inspection now to
cover their new insurance cost. This has not made them now non professionals and lower than
other inspectors, as you stated. Your wrong.

Your

You are defending an exaggerated slander about Texas inspector and are now claiming to defend
them… hmmm… I did not wake up one day after some law passed and become non professional.

Hey I’m still here. :smiley:

I wish, hope, pray, want to get out from under TREC. With or without E/O, we need some legislators on OUR side.

Amen, Bruce.

It would take divine intervention. Texas lobbyists pumped in a HUNDRED MILLION + last session. We made California look parochial.

If you want to play, you have to pay - Tom Delay ® Texas, retired

Really??? The whole doctor example (yours) was raised to demonstrate they have some influence over their controlling statutes. I appreciate you actually looking up the facts, but it’s not clear what could have possibly made me more right.

Oh well. I’m out of touch. :mrgreen:

I never claimed anything. I said I was accused of it. That is a matter of public record – Ask somebody who actually goes to the meetings.

It was explained (at least twice, at length) that “HI” referred to a business, not a corporate group (and certainly not individuals). If you want to nitpick an abbreviated acronym and see offense where no insult lies, that is your perogative. This reeks of insecurity and I derive no satisfaction in aggravating that. I’m confident you are a sooper dooper professional.

Good night and good luck,

Russell

You were referring to individuals inspectors in Texas in a condescending manner
which come across as an arrogant know it all. I love to prick inflated egos those
who paint with a broad brush about large groups of people with mocking slur.

You may feel like a realtor patsies and non professional, but I and many
HI in Texas, do not.

I am glad the doctors in Texas have got some relief. After so many years
of being sued till they bleed, the legislators finally granted them respite. I
have talked to many texas doctors who have told me about the living hell
they have to go through because of all the regulation and control that
the government puts on them. I never heard one doctor tell me how glad they
were that doctors get to make all the rules. They don’t live in a fantasy
world.

Even with their reduced liability rate, they still get sued way more than inspector
ever have. Way more. Why… because they can’t make their own rules as
much as you say they can.

Texas inspectors are not patsies and doctors are not rulers of state law.
And yes, the InterNACHI SoP is very much like the Texas SoP.

More on Texas Doctors

Russell seems to have omitted and or embellished some of the story.