Top left breaker position is clearly double-tapped with two conductors, one a blue 12 AWG and one a white 10 AWG. The blue one, so far as I can tell, belongs there. (General lighting circuit). Breaker is a Square D, but I have no idea if it’s a QO series. QO or not, it can’t be o.k. to double-up both a 10 and a 12 gauge conductor on a single breaker, can it? Perhaps an even better question is, what is the white conductor doing there? You may ask, from whence does it come?
[ Image:http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/D/weird wiring.JPG ]
From whence it comes is the conduit shown at lower left. Also in that pipe are two #6 AWG conductors (red and black) serving the hot tub, and protected with a 60 amp breaker, also shown. The green conductor is a #10 AWG, terminating on the ground bus. A white pigtail can be seen in the background, which runs from the 60 amp breaker to its own lug on the neutral bus.
What exactly is going on here? All thoughts greatly appreciated.
Originally Posted By: bbadger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
There is no violation in having a 12 AWG and a 10 AWG on the one breaker providing the breaker is 20 amps or less.
That aside it is against the NEC to use a white wire as a hot when it is run in pipe. A white wire in a cable can be re-identified white, in pipe this is a violation.
As far as the 2 pole 60 with the curly white, that is a GFCI breaker and needs a neutral connection.
-- Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
Originally Posted By: cradan This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Thanks, fellas. Jeff, the pigtail does indeed have its own spot on the neutral bus. I guess my confusion is that the 10 ga. white conductor running in the hot tub conduit is tapped onto a regular 120 volt breaker. We’ve already got heavier gauge red and black hots (as well as a green ground conductor) running in the conduit out to the hot tub; my presumption would be that this white conductor is a neutral. If so, why is it terminating on a general 120v breaker, and why is it only a 10 ga. wire? If it is a neutral conductor, shouldn’t it terminate on the neutral bus? And if it serves the same circuit as the two 6AWG hots, shouldn’t it be comparably-sized? Now I’m really confused. Long day.
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
cradan wrote:
If it is a neutral conductor, shouldn't it terminate on the neutral bus? And if it serves the same circuit as the two 6AWG hots, shouldn't it be comparably-sized?
I believe so, yes.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
There is something strange going on there. If this was part of the GFCI circuit it would trip immediately. There is no other neutral coming back either from what we see. It may not be connected to anything in the spa or it is returning on the green.
Originally Posted By: cradan This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Thanks, Greg. Now, we’re really cooking with hot sauce. Frankly, the spa was not part of the inspection, and I didn’t go out there purposely, as it was wholly-outside the inspection scope. It was, however, enclosed in a lovely (as the Realestators would call it) gazebo, which maybe had lights and perhaps a switch or switches installed. I’m guessing the 10 gauge white wire in the pic (stuffed into the same pipe with the spa hot conductors and the spa ground, and ultimately terminating at a Square D QO general lighting 20-amp breaker) may have nothing to do with the spa. The question still bugs me…where’s the appropriately-sized neutral serving the spa circuit? Ah well…time for a qualified local electrical contractor. Thank-you for the opinions.
Originally Posted By: bbadger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
cradan wrote:
If it is a neutral conductor, shouldn't it terminate on the neutral bus?
The fact that it is on a breaker and apparently everything is working lets us conclude it is not a neutral.
If it was a neutral that was mistakenly terminated to a breaker one of two things would happen.
1) The appliance the wire serves would simply be dead.
2) The appliance the wire serves would be getting 240 volts and be fried.
Which of those would depend on which phase the 'other' wire of that circuit is connected to.
cradan wrote:
The question still bugs me...where's the appropriately-sized neutral serving the spa circuit? Ah well...time for a qualified local electrical contractor.
I am a qualified local electrical contractor, just not in your local area. 
The spa may not have any neutral it may be straight 240 volt.
I do agree with Greg
Quote:
This is the classic "call an electrician"
-- Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
What would concern me more than anything else it the fact that originally the circuit looked to be wired for a 240 volt, 3 wire with grounding. Now that three of them are hot, it would appear that the grounding wire is now being used as a neutral and that my friends is not code compliant, or safe.
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
cradan wrote:
The question still bugs me...where's the appropriately-sized neutral serving the spa circuit?
As Bob noted, the spa may be a 240V circuit without a neutral. Also if there is lighting fed from that conduit, I guess it's possible the white is hot, the green is neutral, and the conduit is being used as the ground ... just another WAG! I agree there is something strange there.
cradan wrote:
Ah well...time for a qualified local electrical contractor.
Originally Posted By: cradan This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I speculated in the report that the white conductor may have been used as a hot conductor for lighting or other appurtenances, and was simply untagged.
Right before I recommended that the wiring be reviewed by a qualified sparky prior to the close of escrow. Thanks again for the opinions.
