Ungrounded GFCI

What a freakin’ cop out.

My clients are like my familiy and I treat them as such.

I want my family to be safe.

Nuff said.

And where does this leakage go? Why does the manufacturer take it to the EBC prong? Think about it.

Will, chill out. Your zeal is getting you all worked up.:wink:

The 3.5 mA would go through your body and not harm you unless there is a path through your heart. In “normal” conditions there is no hazard from 3.5 mA passing through you.

BW- I am not endorsing the removal of the groun pin or the use of a cheater to bypass the ground pin.

I know, Mike. Just worked up. Had a bad day, today. My youngest is sick and I REALLY am focused on Family and safety and the like.

3.5mA. GFCIs trip at 5.0 mA. Electrical “grab” occurs at 7.5 mA. Heart fibrilations start at 8.0 mA.

Ever touched a 9 volt battery terminal with a cut in your finger? Skin is an insulator. Cut (or wet) skin insulates much less.

I have been walking on the concrete slab in my utility room, with some mositure present and in bare feet (Yeah, I live dangerously :cool: ) and touched my washing machine and gotten a (slight) shock.

Everything grounded and GFCI and all that.

Have you ever had a GFCI trip because of a ground fault that was connected to you? I have (many times). I hear that “CLICK” and realize that I was just saved from a $9.00 device from Home Depot.

Kinda puts it all in perspective, at least for me.

I don’t want my family, of my clients, hurt.

Bad for business, my referrals and my sleep.

All correct and that why the folks who develop standards chose 3.5 mA to give a margin of safety in normal individuals.
In a hospital 3.5 mA would be considered hazardous in patient areas and a different standard and limit apples. I did hospital safety for 20+ years and used to teach the docs and nurses why electrical safety was so important.

So did I. Radiation Safety Officer, Billings Hospital, University of Chicago. 1978 - 1983.

Dang cardiac monitors were a real B*tch! Especially when they had implanted leads.

The level for implated leads or any other internally applied part is 10 uA if memory suffices.

Will …if you install a sprinkler system in your house the children you worry about will be safer.
Have you done so?
From my understanding the main purpose of grounding is to protect the electrical system from huge power surges as occurs from a lightning strike.
If grounding is all that’s needed , GFCI and AFCI protection would have no reason to exist.
Go grab a bare wire with grounding and find out.:slight_smile:
Me I can grab an GFCI protected circut and be perfectly fine.(no ground needed.)

So you are saying that if you do not “upgrade” to new required codes you are immoral and don’t care about your family??? That is precisely what it sounds like.

Will, time to call that sprinkler guy Robert mentioned.

One can reasonably and inexpensively upgrade to grounded three prong recpetacles (at least in the crazy Chicago area, where everything is in bonded conduit and the conduit is ground bonded). Just replace the old two prongs with three prongs and, presto!, grounded and safe.

I can see where that might be a problem for other areas.

And the cost of sprinklers is much higher. But I do have fire extingushers in my house, and smoke detectors (that I change out every 5 years becasue the detectors go bad after 5 years) and CO detectors and all that new fangled stuff.

Hey, what you do in your house is what you do.

I inform my clients and let them decide.

Are you saying that two prong receptacles are just as safe as grounded 3 prong receptacles?