Water faucet directly below main electrical panel

Originally Posted By: jlybolt
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http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/3/3408_T ]


Originally Posted By: jpope
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It certainly isn’t the “best” setup, but I can’t think of anything that would disallow it.



Jeff Pope


JPI Home Inspection Service


“At JPI, we’ll help you look better”


(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: brian winkle
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James it’s not in the working clearance area if it does not extend past the front of the panel.


Originally Posted By: Jay Moge
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good thing electricity doesn’t drip. icon_cool.gif just watch out for that puddle your standing in while working on the pane.


Originally Posted By: James D Mosier
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I have an anti-siphon hose bib that decided to blow it’s top one day while washing the car. I can almost guarantee that water and electricity would have mixed had my service panel been above.


And what's the first thing someone does in that case? Immediately stick their hand in the potentially electrified stream of water to shut it off.

IMO, If it's not a code problem, the code has a problem.


--
Jim Mosier

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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This is NEMA 3R equipment. It is designed for wet locations.


Originally Posted By: James D Mosier
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I see the equipment is designed for wet locations.


I bet that anti-siphon valves are designed to NOT blow a stream of water 5 or 6 feet up the wall of my house.

Unfortunately things don't always work as designed.


--
Jim Mosier

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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Electric water heaters must scare the hell out of you.


Originally Posted By: jpope
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Greg Fretwell wrote:
Electric water heaters must scare the hell out of you.


![icon_cool.gif](upload://oPnLkqdJc33Dyf2uA3TQwRkfhwd.gif) touche'


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: jlybolt
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I really appreciate everyones help with this. It just seemed odd to do this when you have an entire wall to mount the electrical equipment and/or water pipes. : icon_razz.gif


Originally Posted By: brian winkle
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Quote:
It just seemed odd to do this when you have an entire wall to mount the electrical equipment and/or water pipes.


You would be surprised, lots of stuff gets in the way of different trades when building a house. I was roughing in a bathroom, the plumber had his vent pipes turn horizontal at 42" all the way across the wall at the double sinks right where the plans showed 2 electrical boxes. When I asked him about it he said "I always put my vent pipes at 42 inches". Well guess what, he doesn't anymore.

By the way, having a water pipe close by makes it easy for the GEC!


Originally Posted By: James D Mosier
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jpope wrote:
Greg Fretwell wrote:
Electric water heaters must scare the hell out of you.


![icon_cool.gif](upload://oPnLkqdJc33Dyf2uA3TQwRkfhwd.gif) touche'



OK, I conceed, it's the ideal situation.


--
Jim Mosier

Originally Posted By: bbadger
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James D Mosier wrote:
jpope wrote:
Greg Fretwell wrote:
Electric water heaters must scare the hell out of you.


![icon_cool.gif](upload://oPnLkqdJc33Dyf2uA3TQwRkfhwd.gif) touche'



OK, I conceed, it's the ideal situation.


No one even came close to saying this is ideal.

Only that it is code compliant.

And you have to admit Greg's comment was pretty funny.


--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN

Originally Posted By: rbennett
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Where does one put his or her other hand when turning the valve??


While not a code problem I would mark it as a safety item and recommend that the valve be disabled (remove handle) If in an area where freezing is not an issue remove the valve and cap the pipe

If an outside faucet is needed have one installed at a better location

Also get a buy in from the BI. (time permitting)

In a case like this we do not have to say anything about CODE because that is not our problem. This is a design issue. Like poor

This also shows the quality of the builder and I would look at the rest of the home with a sharper eye.

Short war story -- did an inspection and could not find any major problems. Had extra time so decided to dig deeper. Found termite infested 2x4 out behind a small shed - fresh cut.

Reinspect the house - found a new inspection plate in bed room closet to the plumbing for the tub. Took plate off and the termites were active. Also repaired H20 leak - and one leak in tub drain not repaired.

House had already passed the termite inspection. More pix went in the report.

Sometimes a small issue will stick in your head like a water faucet. What other issues exist since poor design is evident??

Boy can we get wrapped around the axal on some small issues --- This is good - It shows that we are looking

This is a major issue if you are dead. Ground clamp from the panel where ever it is lets say a rod right under the panel is lose and comes off when the weed whacker gets hold of the wire. One small ground anywhere and a possible EMF difference between the faucet and the panel

Yes I know one would have to have two faults at the same time plus someone turning on the H20, but why chance it?

Besides you know in you mind that you did the right thing. Report

rlb


Originally Posted By: bbadger
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rbennett wrote:
While not a code problem I would mark it as a safety item and recommend that the valve be disabled (remove handle) If in an area where freezing is not an issue remove the valve and cap the pipe


I only wish you where joking. ![icon_eek.gif](upload://yuxgmvDDEGIQPAyP9sRnK0D0CCY.gif)

Would you also report the bathroom outlet as a safety hazard and recommend the water to the bathroom be disabled.

If you have kids you know the water flies everywhere.

How about the outlet for the washing machine?

How about the kitchen counter outlets?

The panel presents no greater danger than any other outlet, the voltage to ground is still 120 volts, you could not be exposed to 240 volts without the cover being removed.

It is not a code issue because it is not a safety issue. If you do make this a safety issue you have opened the door to many other 'safety issues'.

JMO, Bob


--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN

Originally Posted By: James D Mosier
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bbadger wrote:

No one even came close to saying this is ideal.

Only that it is code compliant.

And you have to admit Greg's comment was pretty funny. ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)


Yeah, I should have used a smiley or two. I know it's not a violation and it's not ideal either.

I would just note it in the report as what it is, a hose bib under an electrical panel and let the client ignore it if they choose.


--
Jim Mosier

Originally Posted By: pabernathy
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OK… Now the unit is outside and is not governed by 110-26(f)(1)(a) which is for indoor panel installations.


However, one could say that 110.26(F)(2) does pose a question...here is the wording:

(2) Outdoor. Outdoor electrical equipment shall be installed in suitable enclosures and shall be protected from accidental contact by unauthorized personnel, or by vehicular traffic, or by accidental spillage or leakage from piping systems. The working space shall include the zone described in 110.26(A). No architectural appurtenance or other equipment shall be located in the zone.


Well.....let me see.....It is a suitable enclosure....(YES ) and does it pose a risk from accidental spillage or leakage from piping systems....hmmmm...COULD BE......

OK.....everyone knows me by now...I do not see a problem with this and I am not talking about the knob being within the space as in the indoor requirements of the actual article....and I am not talking about if it extends into the space beyond the panel.......BUT it does pose a risk to anyone working in that panel.....

I probably would NOT note anything......BUT i do not see it being anything wrong with maybe making a note of it on the HI report letting them know of the possible issue and to possibly make sure the panel has a lock on it for only authorized and qualified people to go into it.

P.S. I think any outside panel should be locked..but thats me...lol

Ok......I do not think is is a problem...want to make that clear as I would be flammed by my other electrical brothers...lol.......But on the HI side to simply reduce your exposure their is sure nothing wrong with mentioning they are aware of it and BE SAFE....I would not call it a hazzard as those words are way too strong.......for this situation.



WHAT....Bob..........do you still put plugs on the kitchen counter...lol...thehehehee...sorry lol


--
Paul W. Abernathy- NACHI Certified
Electrical Service Specialists
Licensed Master Electrician
Electrical Contractor
President of NACHI Central Virginia Chapter
NEC Instructor
Moderator @ Doityourself.com
Visit our website- www.electrical-ess.com

Originally Posted By: bbadger
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pabernathy wrote:
P.S. I think any outside panel should be locked..but thats me...lol


It is not just you that feels that way. ![icon_cool.gif](upload://oPnLkqdJc33Dyf2uA3TQwRkfhwd.gif)

480 volt 3 phase disconnects that we install in areas that are exposed to the general public scare the #*^@ out of me. No tools needed to open them up.


--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN

Originally Posted By: pabernathy
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Bob,


Wow....not that should be a crime to not lock panels of that size.....much less any outdoor panel.


--
Paul W. Abernathy- NACHI Certified
Electrical Service Specialists
Licensed Master Electrician
Electrical Contractor
President of NACHI Central Virginia Chapter
NEC Instructor
Moderator @ Doityourself.com
Visit our website- www.electrical-ess.com

Originally Posted By: rbennett
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OK I stand educated


I don't like bad design as something that can be done different.

Not a code issue - not a problem

rlb