Westinghouse main panel

Originally Posted By: sramos
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Can anyone tell me if Bryant breakers are approved for a Westinghouse main panel? I wrote this up as further investigation and the Realtor is wanting me to run some info down to make sure these devices are NOT approved.



Steven Ramos


EnviroVue Home Inspection


866-541-2883

Originally Posted By: Joey D’Adamo
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I think they might be actually… just a quick google shows that bryant makes breakers that fit cutler-hammer panels, and I know that cutler-hammer makes the breakers that are used in older westinghouse panels today.


Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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You have 3 issues


1. Is the Bryant breaker "listed/labelled" for a Westinghouse panel.

I bet NO

2. Is it U/L (or other lab) "classified" as being a replacement

Maybe.

3. Does it fit?

Legally not important. A penny "fits" in an Edison fuse socket.


Originally Posted By: sramos
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Where can I find the definitive answer on this topic. The owner called me and said his contractor friend doesn’t beleive this is a problem because that was how the original builder installed the system.


I asked him if that makes it right? If it exists, somewhere other than the instructions on the panel, I would like to know where I can reference this in case I am challenged again.


--
Steven Ramos
EnviroVue Home Inspection
866-541-2883

Originally Posted By: jpope
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Inspector - “I’m not sure but it doesn’t look right. Let’s ask an expert.”



Jeff Pope


JPI Home Inspection Service


“At JPI, we’ll help you look better”


(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: jpeck
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Greg Fretwell wrote:
You have 3 issues

1. Is the Bryant breaker "listed/labelled" for a Westinghouse panel.

I bet NO

2. Is it U/L (or other lab) "classified" as being a replacement

Maybe.

3. Does it fit?

Legally not important. A penny "fits" in an Edison fuse socket.


Add another one.

4. Is the a Westinghouse panel "listed/labeled" for a Bryant breaker?

I bet NO here too.


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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I believe Joe T placed that list on this forum at one point. You should ask him if he still has that information, or if he can get it for you.


Joe Myers


Originally Posted By: tallen
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Joe Tedescoe has all the answers.


I for 1 am glad Joe bothers to help us. ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)


Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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This is what I posted when the question was asked in another post. Can we see what the label and instructions say on the equipment? This is usually where any restrictions can be found.


![](upload://yzFhLGwro1ISwKsD2BDLpy1IMZK.jpeg)


--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: jmcginnis
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Don’t forget to read the “small print” …


"only when the load center is marked to accept them"


Originally Posted By: sramos
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I did not take a picture of the label. Indicated that only westinghouse breakers are approved for the panel. It did not list any others.



Steven Ramos


EnviroVue Home Inspection


866-541-2883

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Aren’t Bryant panels made by Westinghouse?? Or is it Challenger???


Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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I have never seen a panel that was labelled to use someone else’s breaker. That kicks the “classified breaker” tar baby. U/L will test and “classify” a 3d party breaker (most notably a Challenger breaker in a SqD panelboard). At that point you have a conflict in the code.


110.3(A)(7) vs 110.3(B)


Personally I believe U/L and their testing regimen but if you talk to a Square D rep they will say this is going to burn houses and kill babies.
I think it is simply restraint of trade.

If the breaker manufacturer can come up with the proper classification, verified by a recognized testing lab, I don't see the problem.


Originally Posted By: jtedesco
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



sramos wrote:
I did not take a picture of the label. Indicated that only westinghouse breakers are approved for the panel. It did not list any others.


Steve:

This is what I expected! ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)


--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: bbadger
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sramos wrote:
I did not take a picture of the label. Indicated that only westinghouse breakers are approved for the panel. It did not list any others.


Regardless of the panel cover, breakers that are UL Classified for that particular model number panel may be used.


From the 2003 UL White Book
Quote:
CIRCUIT BREAKERS, MOLDED-CASE, CLASSIFIED FOR USE IN SPECIFIED EQUIPMENT (DIXF)

GENERAL


This category covers Classified molded-case circuit breakers rated 15 to 50 A, 120/240 V maximum that have been investigated and found suitable for use in place of other Listed circuit breakers in specific Listed panelboards. The circuit breakers are Classified for use in specified panelboards in accordance with the details described on the circuit breaker or in the publication provided therewith.

In addition, Classified molded-case circuit breakers may also be Listed with additional features such as a ground-fault trip element, ground-fault circuit interrupter, arc-fault circuit interrupter, secondary surge arrester, transient voltage surge suppressor, and the like.

PRODUCT MARKINGS

A circuit breaker that is Classified only is marked on the side with the statement:

??Classified for use only in specified panelboards where the available short-circuit current is 10 kA, 120/240 volts ac or less. Do not use in equipment connected to circuits having an available system short-circuit current in excess of 10 kA, 120/240 volts ac. For catalog numbers (or equivalent) of specified panelboards, refer to Publication No.______ provided with this circuit breaker. If additional information is necessary, contact [Classified circuit breaker manufacturer?s name].??

A circuit breaker that is both Classified and Listed is marked on the side with the statement:

??This circuit breaker is Listed for use in circuit breaker enclosures and panelboards intended and marked for its use. This circuit breaker is Classified for use, where the available short-circuit current is 10 kA, 120/240 V ac or less, in the compatible panelboards shown in Publication No. ______ provided with this circuit breaker. When used as a Classified circuit breaker, do not use in equipment connected to circuits having an available system short-circuit current in excess of 10 kA, 120/240 V ac. If additional information is necessary, contact [Classified circuit breaker manufacturer?s name].??

The referenced publication is a compatibility list which tabulates the company name, catalog number, number of poles and electrical ratings of the Classified circuit breaker, in addition to the company name and catalog number of the applicable UL Listed panelboards, and corresponding UL Listed circuit breakers in place of which the Classified circuit breaker has been investigated. The compatibility list also details the maximum permissible voltage and maximum available short circuit current of the supply system to the panelboard. The Classified circuit breaker is not suitable for the specified application if the system supply characteristics exceed the maximum values indicated in the compatibility list. One copy of the compatibility list is provided with each circuit breaker.

Circuit breakers which are both Classified and Listed have markings as above, with the addition of the Listing Mark, located on the side of the circuit breaker.

RELATED PRODUCTS

For information on markings, see Molded-case Circuit Breakers and Circuit Breaker Enclosures (DIVQ) and Circuit Breakers (DHJR). For those Classified molded-case circuit breakers containing additional features, refer to the following categories: for Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters, Branch/Feeder Type, see AVZQ; for Circuit Breaker and Secondary Surge Arresters, see DIMV; for Circuit Breaker and Transient Voltage Surge Suppressors, see DIPJ; for Circuit Breakers with Equipment Ground Fault Protection, see DIYA; for Circuit Breaker and Ground-fault CircuitInterrupters, see DKUY.

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

For additional information, see Circuit Breakers (DHJR) and Electrical Equipment for Use in Ordinary Locations (AALZ).

REQUIREMENTS

The basic standards used to investigate products in this category are UL 489, ??Molded-Case Circuit Breakers, Molded-Case Switches and Circuit Breaker Enclosures?? and UL 67, ??Panelboards.??

LOOK FOR CLASSIFICATION MARK ON PRODUCT

The Classification Mark of Underwriters Laboratories Inc. on the product is the only method provided by UL to identify products manufactured under its Classification and Follow-Up Service. The Classification Mark appears on the side of the circuit breaker and consists of the words ??Underwriters Laboratories Inc. Classified Circuit Breaker?? together with a control number. The words ??Underwriters Laboratories Inc.?? may be abbreviated ??Underwriters Lab. Inc.?? or ??Und. Lab. Inc.?? The following mark: appears on the front, visible surface of the circuit breaker.



--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN