I wasn’t offended. I just wanted to be sure that you understood that it wasn’t really directed at the chapter, but just to the guy who’s abusing the stationary. I think he has been seriously misguided by the likes of Russ Meyers.
I did realize that the subject of the thread might raise a few Southern Illinois eyebrows. Now that you guys know the mindset and practices of the leadership down there you might have a chance to straighten him out or give him the boot. I’m sure he’s a nice guy, and there is a place for everyone. I’m just not sure Ken is in the place that is right for him, given his apparent way of thinking.
Since the Illinois State Chapter is a not-for-profit and required to keep a paper trail for all expenditures (even $2.50) shouldn’t all expenses be reimbursed? Is it fair for the State Chapter (which receives no funding from NACHI) to absorb the expenses for other chapters?
Perhaps if you had contacted the NACHI Illinois State Education Administrator you would have known the policy or maybe your source gave you wrong information.
(David said I just hope chapter money isn’t being spent on administrative costs for other chapter’s events. It is important to keep those monies completely separate (no matter how little or how much it is).
I do not have a hidden agenda – just wanted to do something to help the greater good. I am not sure I want to belong to an organization that is so unprofessional as to call another member names in an open forum.
Mr. Nice I will pay the 2.50 out of my pocket since it seems that this is going to cause your chapter a hard ship to refund the chpater that was helping your chapter out.
Good News! Since the $2.52 for certificate printing was such a hardship for your chapter – the National On-Line Chapter President John Bowman is going to pay the fee for you. You can rest easy knowing that your chapter will remain solvent.
By the way, just so you know in the future each chapter that holds an event will be charged a flat fee to cover the costs for printing and mailing of the certificates. Call or email me before your event for specifics.
P.S. It is not just the $2.52 for one certificate but if you multiply that by 25 to 30 students for a course it adds up in a hurry. Someone has to pay those fees and it should be the chapter that is collecting the money or maybe I could send the bill to the Greg Bell to see if he will put his money where his mouth is.
My name has been used in this. There have also been inuendos to “you would have known the policy or maybe your source gave you wrong information.” Ken, it wasn’t me. I just offered to teach the class, got reimbursed (gas money. 160 miles round trip, truck gets 14 MPG and ‘cashed in’ the debt by applying it to last Tuesday’s meeting (where Nick spoke) and added $5.00 to meet the door price.) I was there (among others) when Dave brought up this issues. I will testify that Nick told Dave to post it on the board (although, I wish it had been in the Member’s Only area. No use airing dirty laundry in public). If I have known about this, I would have paid the cost. And more.
Ken. You gotta understand that the office of State CE Admin should be separate from Chapter President. The “approved” NACHI chapter by-laws say that a Chapter officer cannot hold another ‘office’ in NACHI national. Not only a legal conflict of interest, but real confusing (as you now are finding out).
NACHI does not always make things clear (ahead of time). Nuff Said.
If it does not help, don’t post it. There are many things I could post (old e-mails, for one) and “private” conversations that went on, but I have learned that “if it doesn;t help, it’s just sour grapes”. Wise words.
I would like to have these “rules” posted, in public (Member’s area?) so that they are clear. I asked Ken for them, this afternoon, but he reffered me to someone else. I called that other person and they said they would send them, but still no rules (and I hope that they are forthcoming). There are too many ‘secret’ rules in this group. I am not saying that this is because of some nafarious purpose. I am saying that there needs to be more transparency.
Dave. Your posts are not helpful, on this issue. I understand your frustrations (and share many of them) but if someone is being (in your opinion) a jerk, that does not give you an excuse to be a jerk back.
We (collectively) are NACHI. Let’s start acking like it.
Different states have different laws and rules and regulations. These are easily solved, but only if we listen to, believe, and support the people on the ground in the different states. Illinois has requirements for state CE. Ken is trying (his best, under very difficult circumstances) to follow those rules and do his best. He was handed a big responsibility and is just getting used to it. I understand that $2.50 is a minor sum, but Ken is just (I believe, and correct me if I am wrong, Ken) trying to make sure that this $2.50 (out of his pocket) does not become the norm. There was some miscommunication about another, larger course, with some $1.800, where Ken felt that he was stuck. This was caused by the less-than-professional hand-off of the IlLinois State CE administrator duties to him. Not his fault. I (personally) know Ken and he is a good, honest and responsible guy.
Let’s all just settle down. Ken, I will, personally (not from the Chicago Chapter!) make sure that any problems (money shortfall to you) are taken care of, out of my personal (not business) pocket for any courses I teach. I am also sending you a check ($100) as an advance against any out-of-pocket expenses you may have in dealing with Illinois CE.
I am not nor have ever been a chapter president. I am only the State Admin. And Will I was not referring to you by “source of information” – if I meant you, I would have used your name. And you are right, we all look bad by this kind of behavior. It really bothers me most that Nick was behind this. Is that the leadership we should follow? Enough on the subject from me.
You really missed the whole point of this and I wont respond to escalation and repetition of nonsense and sarcastic remarks.
You say your not the chapter president but the chapter is a non-profit. If that is the case it must be a corporation and have officers. Who are the officers of this non-profit. You say it is a real chapter but there is no apparent president. It appears that you have directors, but who are the officers. Non-profits must have officers and publicly disclose who they are. So start disclosing. What is the official name of the non-profit, who are the officers, how is it registered with the state, the feds, etc. Now lets see the bylaws.
I would like to know why the NACHI Illinois State Administrator is sending invoices payable to the chapter. The administrator is a NACHI volunteer position and not a chapter position.
I’m not going to press it any futher because it is clear that no matter how many ways it is explained to you, and how many people say it, your just not going to get why it is just not a smart of good thing to send invoices to anyone for $2.52.
I print out the exams, the applications and used my own business envelopes to sent that stuff down there and it never once occurred to me to even waste my time trying to figure out how much each piece of paper cost, the toner, the envelope, etc; so I could charge our chapter for it.
I’m sure that if it comes to major printing and mailing jobs we may have to work something out, but for the time being I just know that it will come back to me in other ways.
I did contact the administrator and Pat forwarded everything but that policy to me. I know that Russ did not even tell him to send that because I got Cc:ed in the emails. I asked for all the information necessary to offer the Illinois CE’s and I got nothing from your office. It all got passed on to Pat Bollinger. Still, the buck has to stop somewhere.
If you somehow thought that I already was aware of that policy (as it should have been sent) it makes no sense why you felt the need to include a copy with the invoice.
It is not an issue about $2.52 or who’s hardship it is, it is an issue of common courtesy and basic math. If it is going to cost you $2.00 to print an invoice and a policy sheet, put it in an envelope with a stamp and mail it, what is the point.
Now. You say your not the chapter president but the chapter is a non-profit. If that is the case it must be a corporation and have officers. Who are the officers of this non-profit. You say it is a real chapter but there is no apparent president.
It appears that you have directors, but who are the officers. Non-profits must publicly disclose who the officers are. So start disclosing. What is the official name of the non-profit, who are the officers, how is it registered with the state, the feds, etc. Now lets see the bylaws.
The point is that I am not sure you know what you are doing there. That is not a bad thing, or a right or wrong thing. It is just apparent that you may need some good sound advise and good guidance from somebody that can help you sort this stuff out. (And Russ Meyer is not the guy to do that)!
You can get in big trouble declaring that you are a non-profit and not dotting the all the I’s and crossing all the the T’s. You may not be the president but you are apparently sending out the bills and collecting money on behalf of the chapter. It appears that you’re acting as an officer, whether it be a president, a treasurer or what have you.
The rest of you guys in Southern Illinois could help get the chapter squared away. Of course it would help if you had a President, like every other chapter of every trade organization or association on the planet earth. I’m betting that a number of other chapter presidents would be willing to offer some advise.
I hope you all make your chapter a succesful one that keeps everthing in proper order and minds the details prevent headaches and trouble down the line.
I paid the whole thing so this is a dead subject now.
In a simple nutshell, Mr. Sitzes is not reimbursed by NACHI for his volunteer efforts on behalf of NACHI Illinois Members. It costs Mr. Sitzes approximately $2.52 per successful candidate in administrative costs. (Naturally this does not cover his labor).
In this particular instance the WI chapter had one successful written exam. Each successful written exam must be forwarded to Mr. Sitzes for issuance of an official certificate and entry into the state’s system. This all must be accomplished within a 10 day period. (The state wrote the rule, not Mr. Myers or Mr. Sitzes). The only representative for NACHI as State Administrator is Mr. Sitzes. He is the only one on record with the state and the only one with the proper passwords, etc. to make the entrys. (What this means is that if a certificate is processed or signed by anyone else other than Mr. Sitzes, than it is worth NACHI CE’s only and not state). We are correct in assuming that this cost is miniscule. But not always. For instance if NACHI Chicago holds a similar approved class (another money venture in and of itself) and 40 people successfully write the exam than the costs have escalated to a little over $100.00. It is totally unfair to even assume that the State Administrator will pay for the State mandated CE requirements for other Illinois Inspectors. (Whether it be one or a hundred).
To facilitate and eliminate this problem in the future, each written exam will be accompanied with a $5.00 administrative fee when sent to Mr. Sitzes for verification and entry within the Illinois State System. (This applies to all State Approved exams and not just to successful written exams).
There is an exact process that must be followed. If that process is veered from (even the slightest) than NACHI will be fined. Hopefully, I will get these exact steps that NACHI and its administrator must follow correct.
NACHI pays an initial $1,000.00 per year to become a State of Illinois Continuing Education Provider.
An administrator for NACHI is approved (via application, and more money) by the State of Illinois.
Each course for consideration must be submitted by the Administrator for approval.
Once a course, its curriculum, and exam have been approved by the state, no changes may be made. (The Education Provider is subject to fine if found in violation. i.e. addition or subtraction from the approved curriculum, or change to test, etc.) NACHI as educator has already been audited once. We were found to be in compliance.
At the completion of each course, the administrator has exactly 10 days to have a certificate of completion in each participants hands that successfully writes the exam. (Any violation may result in a fine to the approved Education Provider).
At the completion of each course, the administrator has exactly 10 days to enter successful completion of each individual for State CE’s. The administrator is the only one who has the password and entry info needed to complete this effort. (Any violation may result in a fine to the approved Education Provider).
*]The administrator approved by the State of Illinois for each Educational Provider (in this case Mr. Sitzes for NACHI) is the only one authorized to enter information to the State System for NACHI. In other words - there are other administrators for other educational providers. But because the course was approved by the State as a NACHI approved educational seminar, it must be the approved Administrator to make the entry. Joe Administrator from another association or approved educational provider cannot enter info for NACHI State approved courses. (Any violation may result in a fine or immediate suspension of Educational Provider’s license).
Hope this helps, and I’m sure I have left something out. To establish wheter or not a course has been approved for State of Illinois credit, please look for a statement from the Administrator (Mr. Ken Sitzes) or email him. Mr. Sitzes will bend over backwards to get education approved. To get a course approved, educators must contact Mr. Sitzes (If it is a NACHI sponsored course) to apply. Each course must be accompanied with a $50.00 submission fee. This is true each and everytime that the course is submitted for approval. If your course is rejected it will cost $50.00 to resubmit. Additionally a course is only good for one year. At the end of that year the course must be resubmitted with appropriate fee (which is $50.00 this year). To assist the Illinois Inspectors and the administrator, each participant that writes an exam will be assessed $5.00 for administrator fees.
It might be dead if in fact the issue had anything at all to do with what the administrative costs are and who is responsible for paying them.
The issue started out as a humorous poke at the just plain silliness of issuing a bill for $2.52 (let alone making a followup collection call). That being said, out of many available responses, Mr. Sitzes chose the route of hunkering down, defensiveness, justification, sarcasm and basically taking himself far too seriously.
One possible response could have been to say ‘Now that I think about it, I guess it was pretty silly, sorry, nevermind, please remember the costs in the future, though’. (Or some such answer).
The rules (and the exact processes) with regard to Illinois CE were understood before we had any Illinois inspectors take the course here. We did our research and reached out to the administrator and others familiar with the process to make sure we did things right.
No explanation is needed that the process requires following the rules and that typically a large group of participants could add up to some money that nobody should have to pay out of pocket.
Had somebody said 'BTW, drop us a check for $2.52 for each submission we would have gladly done so. To be blindsided with an invoice (regardless of the size) and a belated copy of the “policy” had everyone here scratching our heads and laughing out loud.
It makes sense that you have decided to make a Administrative fee per participant. This should allow Ken a little breathing room to cover his out of pocket expenses and allow him to proceed with the administrative duties without having to make decisions.
There remains some question on why there appears to be a blur between the state administrator and the Illinois state chapter. It is not my backyard, so I can only suggest that all those kind of details be attended to appropriately by Illinois members.
As a NACHI leader, you may be able to offer them some assitance.