lol…the tie down should not throw them…lol…being connected to one that has GFCI might…thehehe
I’m sure if I looked at other pics in the series with differing angles I could have found many more problems, I was just looking at pic #1.
Can’t we all just picture joebu beating up on this poor panel…I bet thinking of his wifes kitcchen remodel the entire time…grinning and smiling…lol
Don’t stop now look at the rest and we can discuss the defects.
I agree guys…DO NOT STOP now…POST anything you think you see…
Is this the panel mentioned in the Chicago Chapter? If so I am glad it found a home.
Joe,
I think Will Decker got your panel and they added a sub panel etc. to it on a display board. It might not be mobile now.
Two of my panels are being sent around.
I’m hoping to get Nick to order one for Florida, Hawaii etc.
It costs alot to ship these and they weigh 73 pounds…
Thanks Bruce, I thought so. Did you develop a list and pictures?
I am sure we will come across them in the field when presenting electrical training.
How about Canada, someone should make one for them since some rules are different.
Joe;
yes, this panel is now at our chapter. I have mounted it on a 4 x 8 and added a sub-panel (FPE) and many circuits. I have a mittle metal box with about 200 feet of 16 gauge and I run power through it and get about 35% voltage drop (standard for some McMansions around here where they have 175 - 200 feet runs of 14# to 2nd floor bedrooms.
Also assed a lot of EMT (Chicago area, you know. Just HAVE to have EMT.) and some waterproof, some ROMEX, some UF (even some in that gray PVC for underground use), some lights, various receptacles and even some plastic boxes.
Added a weatherhead to the top and powere the thing. Don’t worry, I had help from the former Asst. Chief electrical inspector for Chicago. It’s safe (just plain wrong). I try to show all the different types of things that an inspector may run into.
BTW: You didn’t show a copy of the panel data sheet. VEEERY sneaky.
All in all, we figure there are about 50 code (NEC) problems with the setup and about 30 more that comply with code (NEC) but are either against various local codes or compliant with codes but defective as far as the state HI law is concerned.
BTW: What is with that big wire with the stranded ground that you have running to a big thing of electrical tape with two neutrals coming out and goint to the two AFCIs. Didn’ty want to open it, but want to know what it is? E-mail me if it is secret.
I am giving the guys about 30 minutes and trying to have them find at least 30 problems.
Fun exercise :mrgreen:
Joe, the Chicago Chapter, and all nothern Illinois HIs are in your debt. A fine addition to the electrical course.
Any other sugestions or great thought are greatly appreciated.
Joe,
I was hoping to keep the list with the panel so that everyone would not know in advance what to look for.
Since everyone will know that problems have been put in, some are rather hard to find on purpose. All problems are visually evident though.
Thanks Will, enjoyed building the mess and the two wires from the AFCI were not connected to the grounded terminal bar, open that splice, I forgot?
Here another picture that may be helpful.
Can we see some of the new versions of the equipment?
Joe,
Give yourself a gold star. an excellent learning tool. I hope you then
show pictures of corrected and defective panels together, so the inspectors
will get a visual experience.
Best Always,
Phil
Joe;
Don’t mean to brush you off. I have just been very busy, work and the holidays.
Will post pictures later.
Thanks again for your work.
Thanks Phil:
Good suggestion. Maybe we can find a member who has discovered that their panels need some work and aside from removing and replacing them we could do some maintenance and repair, what do you think?
Joe,
You know NACHI member have there act together. These
defective panels will probably be more helpful for the ASHI guys. Hope to see you soon.
Phil:D
I looked for about 5 minutes. This is what I came up with. I am sure I could find a few more If I looked longer.
- Re-identify black ground wire
- Feed wires too small (should be #4 CU or #2 AL)
- Excess cable insulation
- Open Knock-outs
- Re-identify whte ungrounded conductor
- Missing and improper conduit fittings
- Double tapped neutral
- Improper handle ties
- Triple handle tie
- Broken breaker handle
- Several breakers are off or tripped (not necessarily a defect, but I always noted it)
- Ground and neutral bars are bonded with a 3 wire feed
- Improper splice (or whatever that thing is at the bottom of the panel)
- Improper wire terminations
- Unworkmanlike
- Overfilled conduit
Joe;
As promised, here are some pictures or the panel you made for us and the additions.
Comments?
Will:
Thank you!
Looks like there were many additional circuits and equipment that were added and each one will have a story.
I’d like to see a video of this discussion so that it can be shared along with your electrical inspection program.
I am sure that the most important discussion begins with safety and being careful while inspecting the system.
How does the chapter determine the completed review by the inspector?
About 50 defects more than I built into the panelboard.
Both I, and close friend of mine, former Asst. Chief Electrical Inspector for Chicago and currently am instructor at the IBEW school, went over it and documented everything. In fact, we did so with regards to Chicago code and the various codes of other suburbs and towns.
We also put togehter a list, one that does not concern codes (Sorry, Joe. Had to do it.) to help inspectors realize that safety and common sense should be their guide. as you and I have discussed, in an HI in our state starts quoting code, they can get in REAL trouble.
Different AHJs, some with contradicting codes. But, in the long run, it comes doesn to explaining to the client what is wrong and why, in language the client can understand. In this way, we help them and empower them to help themselves.
I am very glad that you approve. I am very glad that you started it for me. Also, thanks to Nick for sending it out.
Will:
What’s the current status of this equipment, can other members see it somewhere or use it for their training as well.
Have you complied a list of SOP issues that we can discuss?