What would you say on your report?

(Jeffrey R. Pope, CMI) #21

[quote="kwood, post:14, topic:70552"]

Right beside it is the main service disconnect and it could not be opened. 2 hots and one neutral are running to the Square D panel running to another Square D panel so in reality you have a 3 tap lugs to a sub panel but not really a sub panel. This is because it is attached by a conduit so it cant be considered a (sub) but more like an extension if it were a sub panel then it could not be bonded with the main.
[/QUOTE]
Your description of the components is completely inaccurate, along with pretty much everything in the above statement.

The only real problem is the "multiple conductors under lugs rated for single conductors." HINT - that's how it should be stated in your report.

[quote="kwood, post:14, topic:70552"]

Very good Jim.
[/QUOTE]
The appropriate response would have been "Thank you, Jim." He knows the right answer, so being gracious, rather than patronizing could possibly provoke some goodwill.

(KEVIN WOOD, CMI) #22

I don't think any of us could get all the terms right including you Jeffrey.
That being said the MB is for the general public also and coming down to there level is what is needed.
http://www.maxim-ic.com/glossary/definitions.mvp/terms/all

(Jim Port) #23

I disagree with dumbing down and using the incorrect terminology. The codes are a technical document and using the wrong term can have unexpected results. Kind of like your outlets in closets thread. As I said there, the NEC defines outlets as any point on the system where current is used. The NEC, and I would think the CEC, would define things in a similar manner, would include lighting and smoke alarms as a outlet. Your post was dealing with receptacle outlets. By saying outlets are not allowed you would not be able to have lighting in a closet. Quite different than receptacle outlets.

(Marcel R. Cyr, CMI) #24

[quote="jpope, post:21, topic:70552"]

Your description of the components is completely inaccurate, along with pretty much everything in the above statement.

The only real problem is the "multiple conductors under lugs rated for single conductors." HINT - that's how it should be stated in your report.

The appropriate response would have been "Thank you, Jim." He knows the right answer, so being gracious, rather than patronizing could possibly provoke some goodwill.
[/QUOTE]

Good Morning Jeff.
Too early for you to get all wired up. ;):mrgreen::)

(Jeffrey R. Pope, CMI) #25

[quote="kwood, post:22, topic:70552"]

I don't think any of us could get all the terms right including you Jeffrey.
[/QUOTE]
I'm not referring to "terms," I'm referring to your description of the components.

In your pictures, you have a service panel and two distribution (sub) panels. If you don't know the difference, it is impossible to make an accurate assessment of the conditions that exist.

This statement...
[QUOTE]
This is because it is attached by a conduit so it cant be considered a (sub) but more like an extension if it were a sub panel then it could not be bonded with the main.
[/QUOTE]
... makes it apparent that you don't know the difference.

If you want help with something, all you need to do is ask. Stop posting as if you have all the answers and are going to "quiz" the rest of us.

Good morning Marcel :D

(KEVIN WOOD, CMI) #26

I already did know and I am glad it brought you back. You are very smart and needed on this MB. What you fail to do is make things simple enough for people to understand. I wish you would. However to mention codes is not what I mean. Anyone can do this by having the PDF reading system.
As for Terms yes you are very good.
To attack is not the way to teach and everyone needs to now that you can destroy an associations credibility quickly by this type of action.

(Juan C. Jimenez) #27

Kevin if you think simplified something for anyone to understand you are sadly mistaken. I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. If anything, you made me more confused. I read just about every post on this board and the only thing I see that would destroy our credibility is you. You posted this thread as if you had all the answers but I don't think your understanding of the situation goes any further than those you were trying to "teach". The only difference is, we are willing to learn.

(KEVIN WOOD, CMI) #28

No Juan but I wish everyone would think before they respond on the public MB.
We have lost so much credibility not because of simplifying but bully attacks.

(Jim Port) #29

It might help to know to whom your posts are directed to. If it was directed to me I will not play your little games with the chicken little or what if's. I will justify my answers using what is allowed or not based on the codes that I am held to installing to. There was no personal agenda against you, just refuting statements you have posted that were incorrect.

Holding a title of CMI and asking these basic questions and using the wrong terminolgy or such a poor understanding one of a homes major infrastructure systems does nothing to add any credibility to that title or the HI industry.

(Bruce M. Graham, III, CMI) #30

Kevin,
You don't seem to realize that some are trying to help, albeit talking to a brick wall. If you had to go to court with the statements you posted, the attorneys would have a field day with you. just saying.

(Juan C. Jimenez) #31

I see a main panel below the meter and two "subs" The lugs from the first sub are double tapped to feed the second. They do not appear to be rated for two wires. I have no idea what "conduit" or "extension" have to do with this. The Double tap defects would be seen by any novice so there must be something else you want us to see.

(Jeffrey R. Pope, CMI) #32

[quote="kwood, post:26, topic:70552"]

I already did now and I am glad it brought you back.
[/QUOTE]
My God, man. You are thick.

[quote="kwood, post:14, topic:70552"]

Right beside it is the main service disconnect and it could not be opened. 2 hots and one neutral are running to the Square D panel running to another Square D panel so in reality you have a 3 tap lugs to a sub panel but not really a sub panel. This is because it is attached by a conduit so it cant be considered a (sub) but more like an extension if it were a sub panel then it could not be bonded with the main.
[/QUOTE]
Wrong.

[quote="kwood, post:1, topic:70552"]

The is a SQUARE D main that has a sub panel tapped off the main service wire lugs.
[/QUOTE]
Wrong.

First, let me help you with something else;

NOW = At the present time or moment
KNOW = Be aware of through observation

You did not "KNOW" what you were looking at, as is apparent from your previous posts.

There's a fine line between simplification and inaccuracy. When you over-simplify, you become inaccurate.

(Jeffrey R. Pope, CMI) #33

[quote="jjimenez, post:31, topic:70552"]

I see a main panel below the meter and two "subs" The lugs from the first sub are double tapped to feed the second. They do not appear to be rated for two wires.
[/QUOTE]
You are correct Juan... Other than a double-tapped breaker, I see no other apparent issues.

(KEVIN WOOD, CMI) #34

Now that is the simplified version can you Jeffrey give us the more Electrical Authority answer without an attack.
Thanks for the correction!

(Juan C. Jimenez) #35

Ok thanks Pope. I was waiting for some brilliant explanation from the OP on something most of us would overlook.

(Juan C. Jimenez) #36

If you cant explain simply you don't know it well enough

(Jim Port) #37

[quote="kwood, post:34, topic:70552"]

Now that is the simplified version can you Jeffrey give us the more Electrical Authority answer without an attack.
Thanks for the correction!
[/QUOTE]

The correct answers were given in posts #9, 21 and 33. You were even on the right track when you posted a link to another thread regarding double taps.

(KEVIN WOOD, CMI) #38

[quote="Jim_Port, post:37, topic:70552"]

The correct answers were given in posts #9, 21 and 33. You were even on the right track when you posted a link to another thread regarding double taps.
[/QUOTE]

Why do you think I put it on Jim?:shock:

(Jim Port) #39

I have no idea. I rarely ask questions to which I already know the answer.

You also said there was another problem that you would point out that you still have not done.

(Juan C. Jimenez) #40

[quote="Jim_Port, post:39, topic:70552"]

You also said there was another problem that you would point out that you still have not done.
[/QUOTE]

That's what I have been waiting for