Interestingly enough…a high percentage of the “illegal immigrants” that I’m familiar with had fake SS cards…
They were paying taxes, state and local and federal…and they were paying into our SS system…and guess what? They will never file tax returns and/or use the SS system…
Why is there a defecit?
Why doesn’t the government acknowledge this? They like free money also…
Here are the facts. It’s called the Earnings Suspense File
The ESF has become a hotbed for debate over everything from immigration rights to identity theft, as it continues to accrue money at roughly $6 billion a year, with the total as of 2005 sitting at $519 billion.
Read the whole thing here:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/02/ss_secret_stash.html
and from the General Accounting Office(2005) regarding tracking of employers and mismatched S.S. #s
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/News.asp?FormMode=print&ID=293
And from the Inspector General’s Office (2002)
Thanks for sharing the great article. Several observations: the man who became mayor, Luis Aguilar, arrived illegally, and even though he worked toward citizenship when given the opportunity, he himself stated that he currently spends a great deal of his time getting work for illegals. Even those who are granted citizenship after coming here…still don’t get it, and they never will! They broke the laws by entering and working illegally and once granted citizenship they are still breaking the law by helping others work here illegally…some good it will do us to grant citizenship to the 11 million + that are now working here illegally…it’s not going to stop the flow, it will only increase it. I noticed in one of the articles that the meat packing plant first started it was mostly local help. How did they get that local help? Why was the local help not so interested in working there after awhile… the article stated that they were shoved out. Exactly. So many people want to believe the lame excuse that these people are doing work that others will not. I don’t buy it. I have witnessed this in the trades in the last 20 years. When the illegals first started it was just a few of the trades. They are now in every trade execept plumbing, electrical, and HVAC in my area. I’d be willing to bet that the only reason they are not in these is that they have to hold licenses from the state which they can’t get so they cannot get the work. I cannot believe that locals are no longer wanting to frame houses, or roof, or whatever.
It has always been about money and convenience. You can pay them less, you can make them work in dangerous situations without hearing any complaining about it, you can make them work long hours, you have an inexhaustible supply of labor that you do not have to treat fairly. When you are done with them, there is no employment hassles like rising unemployment insurance. Who is benefited in Cactus, Texas by hiring all those illegals, the few that are managing the plant. Why teachers, law enforcement officials, hospitals and everyone else puts up with this is truly amazing to me.
Troy,
From the article:
The depression of wages for these types of jobs, due to readily available cheap labor, is one of the devastating affects illegal immigration has on this country. That affect has reached to all industries using illegal immigrant workforces. It is sad that those here either naturalized, or legal immigrants, with little skills and training, have lost one of the avenues to make a decent living and raise their families quality of life as a result of this affect.
Immigration’s Impact on Overall Wage Rates
Immigration is popularly thought to lower the overall wage rate in the United States by increasing the supply of individuals looking for jobs. This effect may occur in an area over a fairly short period of time. Over longer time periods, however, wages will only fall if the amounts of other resources don’t change. Wages will not fall if the immigrants bring sufficient amounts of other resources with them, such as capital, or cause the amount of other resources in the economy to increase sufficiently. For example, historically the large-scale immigration from Europe contributed to rapid westward expansion of the United States during most of the nineteenth century. The westward expansion, however, increased the amounts of land and natural resources that were available, factors that almost certainly kept immigration from lowering wage rates. Immigrants also increase the amounts of other resources in the economy through running their own businesses, which both historically and in recent times has occurred at a greater rate among immigrants than native workers. By the beginning of the twentieth century, the westward frontier had been settled. A number of researchers have estimated that immigration did lower wages at this time (Hatton and Williamson, 1998; Goldin, 1994), though others have criticized these findings (Carter and Sutch, 1999). For the recent time period, most studies have found little effect of immigration on the level of wages, though a few have found an effect (Borjas, 1999).
Even if immigration leads to a fall in the wage rate, it does not follow that individual workers are worse off. Workers typically receive income from sources other than their own labor. If wages fall, then many other resource prices in the economy rise. For example, immigration increases the demand for housing and land and existing owners benefit from an increase in the current value of their property. Whether any individual worker is better off or worse off in this case is not easy to determine. It depends on the amounts of other resources each individual possesses.
Immigration’s Impact on Wages of Unskilled Workers
Consider the second issue, the effects of immigration on the wages of unskilled workers. If the immigrants arriving in the country are primarily unskilled, then the larger number of unskilled workers could cause their wage to fall if the overall demand for these workers doesn’t change. A requirement for this effect to occur is that the immigrants be less skilled than the U.S. labor force they enter. As discussed above, during colonial times immigrant volume was small and the immigrants were probably more skilled than the existing U.S. labor force. During the 1830s and 1840s, the volume and rate of immigration increased substantially and the skill level of the immigrant stream fell to approximately match that of the native labor force. Instead of lowering the wages of unskilled workers relative to those of skilled workers, however, the large inflow apparently led to little change in the wages of unskilled workers, while some skilled workers lost and others gained. The explanation for these results is that the larger number of unskilled workers resulting from immigration was a factor in employers adopting new methods of production that used more unskilled labor. As a result of this technological change, the demand for unskilled workers increased so their wage did not decline. As employers adopted these new machines, however, skilled artisans who had previously done many of these jobs, such as iron casting, suffered losses. Other skilled workers, such as many white-collar workers who were not in direct competition with the immigrants, gained. Some evidence exists to support a differential effect on skilled workers during the antebellum period (Williamson and Lindert, 1980; Margo, 2000). After the Civil War, however, the skill level of the immigrant stream was close to that of the native labor force, so immigration probably did not further affect the wage structure through the 1920s (Carter and Sutch, 1999).
Impact since World War II
The lower volume of immigration in the period from 1930 through 1960 meant immigration had little effect on the relative wages of different workers during these years. With the resumption of higher volumes of immigration after 1965, however, and with the immigrants’ skill levels being low, an effect on relative wages again became possible. In fact, the relative wages of high-school dropouts in the United States deteriorated during the same period, especially after the mid-1970s. Researchers who have studied the question have concluded that immigration accounted for about one-fourth of the wage deterioration experienced by high-school dropouts during the 1980s, though some researchers find a lower effect and others a higher one (Friedberg and Hunt, 1995; Borjas, 1999). Wages are determined by a number of factors other than immigration. In this case, it is thought the changing nature of the economy, such as the widespread use of computers increasing the benefits to education, bears more of the blame for the decline in the relative wages of high-school dropouts.
Economic Benefits from Immigration
Beyond any effect on wages, there are a number of ways in which immigration might improve the overall standard of living in an economy. First, immigrants may engage in inventive or scientific activity, with the result being a gain to everyone. Evidence exists for both the historical and more recent periods that the United States has attracted individuals with an inventive/scientific nature. The United States has always been a leader in these areas. Individuals are more likely to be successful in such an environment than in one where these activities are not as highly valued. Second, immigrants expand the size of markets for various goods, which may lead to lower firms’ average costs due to an increase in firm size. The result would be a decrease in the price of the goods in question. Third, most individuals immigrate between the ages of 15 and 35, so the expenses of their basic schooling are paid abroad. In the past, most immigrants, being of working age, immediately got a job. Thus, immigration increased the percentage of the population in the United States that worked, a factor that raises the average standard of living in a country. Even in more recent times, most immigrants work, though the increased proportion of older individuals in the immigrant stream means the positive effects from this factor may be lower than in the past. Fourth, while immigrants may place a strain on government services in an area, such as the school system, they also pay taxes. Even illegal immigrants directly pay sales taxes on their purchases of goods and indirectly pay property taxes through their rent. Finally, the fact that immigrants are less likely to immigrate to the United States during periods of high unemployment is also beneficial. By reducing the number of people looking for jobs during these periods, this factor increases the likelihood U.S. citizens will be able to find a job.
Emmanuel,
Agreed.
But while people of influence continue to use the services provided by illegals to work on their homes, maintain their yards and pools, clean their houses, I don’t see anything changing. If they could only see the effect it’s having on the lower income earners who are legal (whatever their ethnicity) maybe their conscience would bother them enough to change their lifestyles or expectations of what they should pay for those services and who should be doing them.
I heard a young lawyer on TV saying, “Well, these people need jobs too.”
I wanted to write her and ask her how she’d like it if 1 million lawyers entered the country illegally and started digging into her work. Would she appreciate it if the fees she was charging fell from $250 per hour to $80 and her number of clients dropped dramatically because there were so many out of work lawyers that just needed a job too! I don’t think so. She doesn’t feel the pinch and so it doens’t bother her. In fact, I’m sure that not only her nice condo, but also her vacation house at both the beach and the mountains were steeply discounted due to illegals labor, as well as all the money she saves on maintaining and cleaning these places, so there is no incentive for her to change her mind.
But if we were to have 1 million lawyers from around the world enter our country illegally and cut the prices that our attorney’s charge in half, not to mention the number of their clients, I know that they wouldn’t tolerate any of this nonsense of how extreme or DRACONIAN it would be to deport them all and set up a legal means for guest workers. They’d use legal means to get them out as fast as possible.
And you could count on the fact that our attorneys would see to it that laws were passed so that anyone who used the services of illegal lawyers would face steep, DRACONIAN penalties for doing so.
They don’t bring capital James, they send it back to their families in Mexico while they live in impoverished conditions here.
This is one of the big problems, they are not assimilating, and they are a huge burden on the health care industry and education system.
You are not comparing apples to apples when comparing todays illegal’s to those who were allowed to enter legally, either past or present.
May 12, 2006
Amnesty and Continued Low Skill Immigration Will Substantially Raise Welfare Costs and Poverty
by Robert Rector
Backgrounder #1936
[FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]This paper focuses on the net fiscal effects of immi*gration with particular emphasis on the fiscal effects of low skill immigration. The fiscal effects of immigra*tion are only one aspect of the impact of immigration. Immigration also has social, political, and economic effects. In particular, the economic effects of immigra*tion have been heavily researched with differing results. These economic effects lie beyond the scope of this paper.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Overall, immigration is a net fiscal positive to the government’s budget in the long run: the taxes immigrants pay exceed the costs of the services they receive. However, the fiscal impact of immigrants varies strongly according to immigrants’ education level. College-educated immigrants are likely to be strong contributors to the government’s finances, with their taxes exceeding the government’s costs. By contrast, immigrants with low education levels are likely to be a fiscal drain on other taxpayers. This is important because half of all adult illegal immigrants in the U.S. have less than a high school education. In addition, recent immigrants have high levels of out-of-wedlock childbearing, which increases welfare costs and poverty.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]An immigration plan proposed by Senators Mel Martinez (R-FL) and Chuck Hagel (R-NE), the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (CIRA, S. 2611) would provide amnesty to 9 to 10 million illegal immigrants and put them on a path to citizenship. Once these individuals become citizens, the net additional cost to the federal government of benefits for these individuals will be around $16 billion per year. Further, once an illegal immigrant becomes a citizen, he has the right to bring his parents to live in the U.S. The parents, in turn, may become citizens. The long-term cost of government benefits to the parents of 10 million recipients of amnesty could be $30 billion per year or more. In the long run, S. 2611, if enacted, would be the largest expansion of the welfare state in 35 years.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Current Trends in Immigration[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Over the last 40 years, immigration into the United States has surged. Our nation is now experiencing a second “great migration” similar to the great waves of immigrants that transformed America in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. In 2004, an estimated 35.7 million foreign-born persons lived in the U.S. While in 1970 one person in twenty was foreign born, by 2004 the number had risen to one in eight.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]About one-third of all foreign-born persons in the U.S. are illegal aliens. There are between 10 and 12 million illegal aliens currently living in the U.S.[FONT=Verdana][1][/FONT]](http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm#_ftn1) Illegal aliens now comprise 3 to 4 percent of the total U.S. population. Each year approximately 1.3 million new immigrants enter the U.S.[FONT=Verdana][2][/FONT]](http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm#_ftn2) Some 700,000 of these entrants are illegal.[FONT=Verdana][3][/FONT]](http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm#_ftn3)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]One-third of all foreign-born persons in the U.S. are Mexican. Overall, the number of Mexicans in the U.S. has increased from 760,000 in 1970 to 10.6 million in 2004. Nine percent of all Mexicans now reside in the U.S.[FONT=Verdana][4][/FONT]](http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm#_ftn4) Over half of all Mexicans in the U.S. are illegal immigrants,[FONT=Verdana][5][/FONT]](http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm#_ftn5) and in the last decade 80 to 85 percent of the inflow of Mexicans into the U.S. has been illegal.[FONT=Verdana][6][/FONT]](http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm#_ftn6)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]The public generally perceives illegals to be unattached single men. This is, in fact, not the case. Some 44 percent of adult illegals are women. While illegal men work slightly more than native-born men, illegal women work less. Among female illegals, some 56 percent work, compared to 73 percent among native-born women of comparable age.[FONT=Verdana][7][/FONT]](http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm#_ftn7) As well, Mexican women emigrating to the U.S. have a considerably higher fertility rate than women remaining in Mexico.[FONT=Verdana][8][/FONT]](http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm#_ftn8)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Immigrants and Education[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]On average, immigrants have low education levels relative to native-born U.S. citizens. One-quarter of legal adult immigrants lack a high school degree, compared to 9 percent among the native-born population. However, there is a well educated sub-group within the legal immigrant population. Some 32 percent of legal immigrant adults have a college degree, compared to 30 percent of native-born adults.[FONT=Verdana][9][/FONT]](http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm#_ftn9)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]The education levels of illegal aliens are lower than those of legal immigrants. Half of all adult illegal immigrants lack a high school degree.[FONT=Verdana][10][/FONT]](http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm#_ftn10) Among Latin American and Mexican immigrants, 60 percent lack a high school degree and only 7 percent have a high school diploma. By contrast, among native-born workers in the U.S., only 6 percent have failed to complete high school degrees and nearly a third have a college degree.[FONT=Verdana][11][/FONT]](http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm#_ftn11)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Decline in Immigrant Wages[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Over the last 40 years the education level of new immigrants has fallen relative to the native population. As the relative education levels of immigrants have declined, so has their earning capacity compared to the general U.S. population. Immigrants arriving in the U.S. around 1960 had wages, at the time of entry, that were just 13 percent less than natives’. In 1965, the nation’s immigration law was dramatically changed, and from 1990 on, illegal immigration surged. The result was a decline in the relative skill levels of new immigrants. By 1998, new immigrants had an average entry wage that was 34 percent less than natives’.[FONT=Verdana][12][/FONT]](http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm#_ftn12) Because of their lower education levels, illegal immigrants’ wages would have been even lower.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]The low-wage status of recent illegal immigrants can be illustrated by the wages of recent immigrants from Mexico, a majority of whom have entered the U.S. illegally. In 2000, the median weekly wage of a first-generation Mexican immigrant was $323. This was 54 percent of the corresponding wage for non-Hispanic whites in the general population.[FONT=Verdana][13][/FONT]](http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm#_ftn13)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Historically, the relative wages of recent immigrants have risen after entry as immigrants gained experience in the labor market. For example, immigrants who arrived in the U.S. in the 1960s and 1970s saw their relative wages rise by 10 percentage points compared to natives’ wages during their first 20 years in the country. But in recent years, this modest catch up effect has diminished. Immigrants who arrived in the late 1980s actually saw their relative wages shrink in the 1990s.[FONT=Verdana][14][/FONT]](http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm#_ftn14)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Immigration and Welfare Dependence[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Welfare may be defined as means-tested aid programs: these programs provide cash, non-cash, and social service assistance that is limited to low-income households. The major means-tested programs include Food Stamps, Temporary Assistance to Needy Families, public housing, the earned income credit, and Medicaid. Historically, recent immigrants were less likely to receive welfare than native-born Americans. But over the last thirty years, this historic pattern has reversed. As the relative education levels of immigrants fell, their tendency to receive welfare benefits increased. By the late 1990s immigrant households were fifty percent more likely to receive means-tested aid than native-born households.[FONT=Verdana][15][/FONT]](http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm#_ftn15) Moreover, immigrants appear to assimilate into welfare use. The longer immigrants live in the U.S., the more likely they are to use welfare.[FONT=Verdana][16][/FONT]](http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm#_ftn16)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]A large part, but not all, of immigrants’ higher welfare use is explained by their low education levels. Welfare use also varies by immigrants’ national origin. For example, in the late 1990s, 5.6 percent of immigrants from India received means-tested benefits; among Mexican immigrants the figure was 34.1 percent; and for immigrants from the Domin*ican Republic the figure was 54.9 percent.[FONT=Verdana][17][/FONT]](http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm#_ftn17) Ethnic differences in the propensity to receive welfare that appear among first-generation immigrants persist strongly in the second generation.[FONT=Verdana][18][/FONT]](http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm#_ftn18) The relatively high use of welfare among Mexicans has significant implications for current proposals to grant amnesty to illegal immigrants.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Continued with more and charts in complete article:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm
[/FONT]
[/FONT]
Double post
James,
Nice try but you forgot to post the entire piece. This was a historical study of “Legal Immigration”, from colonial times to now, and what “Historians”, not economists and certainly not experts on the “Underground Economy”, believe to be affects of “Legal Immigration”. This piece specifically does not include any studies nor affects of “Illegal Immigration”.
From that same article and note the items bolded. Also pay particular attention to the last bolded item in the last paragraph where the authors themselves indicate that these are merely conclusions and they themselves also admit this data is controversial indicating that they are merely providing a possible explanation and not with irrefutable evidence.
Will -
I think you misinterpret the intentions of those who do not like to use the word “illegal” in reference to all immigrants. I think there are many who are not trying to change the issue.
Like it or not, it is a racially charged issue. Let’s face it, no one is talking about checking the documented status of white guys on the streets, although they could be illegal Austrailian immigrants.
Speaking only for myself, it comes down to people applying these laws disproportionately to people of color (i.e. Latino/Hispanics, etc). I don’t think that most white folks here in suburbia will be asked for proof of citizenship at the local hospital when they are taken into the ER. I am not at all sure the same will be able to be said regarding provision of servce to the significant Mexican population we have here, most of whom are here legally.
I think the xenophobia is a bit overdone, but I am willing to enforce rules as long as they are enforced equally, and to all borders and ports, not just those that border countries that predominently don’t look like us.
Troy,
I agree with you 100% and with your previous post about your need to go to the Million Dollar market segment. I’ve seen so many here go out of business because they can not compete with the cheap labor tactics you have described.
As for the lawyer analogy it is very valid. However, they don’t need to bring the lawyers into the country to have the same affect. Here is another article from that same Sunday’s Business section. It contains not only the tech side but the first paragraph under the heading “Close contact, far away” does mention the plight lawyers could be facing.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/111906dnbusmiddlement.25b7c21.html
This is not a race issue. I don’t care if someone is pink but please come here and work and enjoy freedom by leagal means. It’s really that simple.
I agree 100% but it is unfortunate that those with notoriety are trying to create a racist slant to it in an effort to win amnesty for illegal immigrants. I’m 100% Pro for legal immigration and feel that those trying to come here legally are some of the ones suffering the most from the problems of illegal immigration. Everyone suffers from it, but by by virtue of their ethnicity they will be unfairly treated by the general public as a result.
Listen a little more closely. No one (OK “few” - there are always fringe lunatics) is trying to say that efforts to curb illegal immigration are inherently racist.
The arguement (and it is legitimate) is that this will not be applied evenly and without regard to race.
The hospital example I gave is a classic case where many fear a person of color will have to prove citizenship while bleeding in an ER, by virtue of their color, while white ER patients will not be asked for the same documentation.
Yes, it is an extreme example, but it underscores the point. I am pretty sure no one is going to ask me to prove if I am a citizen when I get rushed to the ER - my neighbor Luis (legal Mexican immigrant) might not be so sure.
Borders with Canada lack security at many points. No one was clamoring for an 800 mile wall there.
It is the unequal application where minorities are concerned that draws fire as possibly racist.
Apply funds, patrols, laws, documentation requirements, etc equally everywhere, and there ceases to be an arguement that can be based on race.
Joesph,
If 11 million + Canadians were coming into the states and disrupting the ecomony, health care and education system, law enforcement, etc. I would be just as opposed to their illegal status and expect my government to remove them and send them back to Canada as I do those that are from other countries. As others have said, this is not a race issue. Ditto for those from Australia. All illegal immigrants need to return to their country of origin, no matter their ethnicity. I will happily welcome all those of every ethnicity (except for Islamic terrorists) who come here legally.
I submit you little about emergency room care. You have expressed out and out bunk. I’ve worked in ER, it’s a first come first serve basis. Unfortunately the place is often clogged by those with no insurance who are there for their headache. Patients wait in the lobby while the indigent, illegal, and unisured are occupying precious bed space in the most expensive territory in the hospital. You don’t have to believe me. Call one and ask.
Let’s start where the largest problem is first. We can get the rest later.
We both know this is not a concern but some in your government want to also put a fence all the way across between our two countries 2,000+ miles.
This is fine the cost will be hard on the US taxpayer but the big concern is we have about 1,000 miles of water that separates out two countries .
Can you even imagine how they can ever hope to maintain that .
In Just the Niagara River alone less then 1/2 mile wide you can have up to 2,000 or more boats from both sides fishing in the river .
Most who fish there a lot buy licenses for both NY and Ontario to remove being in trouble for fishing over the line that is not even straight
Roy Cooke
.