# Wind Mit Photos **URL:** \ **Category:** Florida and SUNachi Inspectors\ **Created:** [August 11, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175 "2012-08-11T02:41:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![acox](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/acox/32/57038_2.png) [@acox](https://forum.nachi.org/u/acox)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175/1 "2012-08-11T02:41:16Z")
Does anyone have a list of standard photos you get on a wind mitigation? Do you submit a photo of a shiner? I just got an email from an agent, with a memo attached from the underwriter, “Please be advised that certain wind mitigation credits have been removed/will not be applied. The following questions did not have supporting photos to substantiate the credits given - Roof Deck Attachment. The photos did not 8D nails spaced 6” in the field. Please e-mail photo of shiner being measured with a tape measure to verify 8D nails were used." From Universal Property and Casualty… I always attach a photo with the nails identified, and with a shiner if it’s accessible, but I don’t usually get a pic of the damn thing with a ruler next to it… I’ve just about had it with wind mitigations… ---
**Author:** ![jmurray4](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jmurray4/32/2301_2.png) [@jmurray4](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jmurray4)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 4:43am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175/2 "2012-08-11T04:43:37Z")
Yes, you will need to do this. Yes, you must prove it’s at least a 2.5 inch nail. I recommend you supply the following pictures with a 'C rating: -Shinner being measured. -Roof deck measurement. -Edge with nail spacing, date, initials, and house number. -Field measurement, initials, date house number. -Measurement of truss spacing. If you supply these pictures, who should not have any more trouble. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![evandeven](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/evandeven/32/373798_2.png) [@evandeven](https://forum.nachi.org/u/evandeven)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 6:53am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175/3 "2012-08-11T06:53:35Z")
> [@acox](#): > > Does anyone have a list of standard photos you get on a wind mitigation? Do you submit a photo of a shiner? > I just got an email from an agent, with a memo attached from the underwriter, “Please be advised that certain wind mitigation credits have been removed/will not be applied. The following questions did not have supporting photos to substantiate the credits given - Roof Deck Attachment. The photos did not 8D nails spaced 6” in the field. Please e-mail photo of shiner being measured with a tape measure to verify 8D nails were used." > From Universal Property and Casualty… > > I always attach a photo with the nails identified, and with a shiner if it’s accessible, but I don’t usually get a pic of the damn thing with a ruler next to it… > I’ve just about had it with wind mitigations… Yet another way to deny discounts. “Get a picture of something you shouldn’t be able to see”. Get a copy of the building code that was in place when the roof was installed. Pretty soon they will want you to cut into the truss to expose the nail. ---
**Author:** ![phalstead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/phalstead/32/179962_2.png) [@phalstead](https://forum.nachi.org/u/phalstead)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 11:51am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175/4 "2012-08-11T11:51:42Z")
As Jay said you will a photograph of everything you are verifying. You have to measure the nail to gather the information so why not take a picture. Eric and I have had this back and forth about shiners before and all I can say is we have performed 1000’s and have never not found a nail… .We are not performing code inspections. ---
**Author:** ![jshishilla](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jshishilla/32/1188_2.png) [@jshishilla](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jshishilla)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 11:54am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175/5 "2012-08-11T11:54:13Z")
I suggest you take the FREE InterNachi wind mitigation class. :mrgreen: ---
**Author:** ![rhyland](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rhyland/32/356457_2.png) [@rhyland](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rhyland)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 12:34pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175/6 "2012-08-11T12:34:58Z")
The absurdity of the Wind Mitigation program is evident in the requirement to photograph and measure an exposed 8d nail (shiner). The program requires everything to be 100% correct according to the form. If not a 100% then the discount will not apply. The fact that one is able to photograph and measure a shiner is in its self evidence that the roof attachment is not every 6 inches. It is highly unlikely that roofer was aware that he had missed the truss and more unlikely that the code official identified the shiner and had the roofer place a nail in between the exact 12 inch space. If you cannot locate one 8d shiner to measure and photograph it, the homeowner is unable to receive the discount. ---
**Author:** ![evandeven](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/evandeven/32/373798_2.png) [@evandeven](https://forum.nachi.org/u/evandeven)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 12:56pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175/7 "2012-08-11T12:56:57Z")
> [@rhyland](#): > > The absurdity of the Wind Mitigation program is evident in the requirement to photograph and measure an exposed 8d nail (shiner). The program requires everything to be 100% correct according to the form. If not a 100% then the discount will not apply. > > The fact that one is able to photograph and measure a shiner is in its self evidence that the roof attachment is not every 6 inches. It is highly unlikely that roofer was aware that he had missed the truss and more unlikely that the code official identified the shiner and had the roofer place a nail in between the exact 12 inch space. > > If you cannot locate one 8d shiner to measure and photograph it, the homeowner is unable to receive the discount. The absurdity continues in that everyone has been convinced that a “shiner” is a nail that missed a truss. A shiner is a nail that was used between the plywood for spacing and someone forgot to remove it. A nail that missed the truss is a code violation as well as a violation of the APA guidelines for roof decking. If you find a side-splitter, which is permitted, although, I don’t know how, then somehow, you can measure that an factor in the bend and come up with an 8D nail. I would like to know exactly where these nails are Preston, that you always find. Are they truly the nails used for roof decking or are they valley jack nails where no valley jack is present, and you are assuming that they are the same as the roof decking nails? The other thing is, how do you know which nails are which using the MT-6? ![Amico (196) (Custom).JPG](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/b/b/bbec5881b5731995594a055a3639fd46a7bfe940.jpeg) ![Amico (197) (Custom).JPG](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/a/0/a02b50670b29e6317096e260f051411d2f2680cd.jpeg) ![Amico (195) (Custom).JPG](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/3/4/34746c4202f1a82c5e1d45478844fd8f2b2781ea.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![wcollier](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/wcollier/32/180057_2.png) [@wcollier](https://forum.nachi.org/u/wcollier)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175/8 "2012-08-11T14:39:43Z")
> [@evandeven](#): > > The absurdity continues in that everyone has been convinced that a “shiner” is a nail that missed a truss. A shiner is a nail that was used between the plywood for spacing and someone forgot to remove it. > A nail that missed the truss is a code violation as well as a violation of the APA guidelines for roof decking. > > If you find a side-splitter, which is permitted, although, I don’t know how, then somehow, you can measure that an factor in the bend and come up with an 8D nail. > > I would like to know exactly where these nails are Preston, that you always find. Are they truly the nails used for roof decking or are they valley jack nails where no valley jack is present, and you are assuming that they are the same as the roof decking nails? > > The other thing is, how do you know which nails are which using the MT-6? Purdy shiners you got there. Wish I could find some like that. ---
**Author:** ![evandeven](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/evandeven/32/373798_2.png) [@evandeven](https://forum.nachi.org/u/evandeven)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175/9 "2012-08-11T14:59:13Z")
> [@wcollier](#): > > Purdy shiners you got there. Wish I could find some like that. Come to South Florida…almost every re-roof looks like that. ---
**Author:** ![jmurray4](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jmurray4/32/2301_2.png) [@jmurray4](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jmurray4)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175/10 "2012-08-11T15:14:27Z")
This was a great question for the board. Many more members will benifit that just the member who posed the question. Our industry as a whole will benifit. Unfortunatly, arguing about what the form should or should not require is irrelevant. The 1802 has these requirements, and like it or not. We have to abide by them. We need to focus on educating members to provide an accurate report that meets the requirements. If the topic of a valid wind mitigation report with the required documentaion is so objectionable, focus the negative attention somewhere else. The OIR is responsive to positive feedback and may be open to your input. Slamming the requirements of the form doesn’t help anyone. ---
**Author:** ![evandeven](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/evandeven/32/373798_2.png) [@evandeven](https://forum.nachi.org/u/evandeven)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175/11 "2012-08-11T15:51:57Z")
> [@jmurray4](#): > > This was a great question for the board. Many more members will benifit that just the member who posed the question. Our industry as a whole will benifit. > > Unfortunatly, arguing about what the form should or should not require is irrelevant. The 1802 has these requirements, and like it or not. We have to abide by them. > We need to focus on educating members to provide an accurate report that meets the requirements. > > If the topic of a valid wind mitigation report with the required documentaion is so objectionable, focus the negative attention somewhere else. The OIR is responsive to positive feedback and may be open to your input. > > Slamming the requirements of the form doesn’t help anyone. I have contacted the OiR, > [@](#): > > I will document your suggestions for future consideration, the form will continue to evolve as industry changes take place. And thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to bring these issues to our attention. > > Sincerely, > > Cindy Walden > Government Analyst I on several occasions to illustrate my concerns. I have also spoken with one of the head guys at Citizens about this very issue. It is why I posted the comment about contacting the building department, getting a copy of the permit and all of the associated paperwork that goes with it, including the re-nailing affidavit, and submit that. This is what you are looking for: > [@](#): > > (1) Fastening of up to and including 19/32 inches roof sheathing panels shall be based on accepted > methods of engineering practice and shall be clearly identified on the design drawings, but in no case shall the > roof sheathing panels be fastened to the supporting structural member with less than 8d common nails spaced > six inches on center over all supports, including the blocking required in Sub-section 2909.2(c). Nail spacing > over gable ends shall not exceed four inches on center. I am not bashing the form, it is what it is. ---
**Author:** ![phalstead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/phalstead/32/179962_2.png) [@phalstead](https://forum.nachi.org/u/phalstead)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 1:45pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175/12 "2012-08-12T13:45:10Z")
> [@evandeven](#): > > I would like to know exactly where these nails are Preston, that you always find. Are they truly the nails used for roof decking or are they valley jack nails where no valley jack is present, and you are assuming that they are the same as the roof decking6? Huh? I would have to say Jay has put it as simple as it can be. The OIR has been very receptive to the industry. Everyone does know there have been meetings in Tallahassee right? I think I saw Jay there… ---
**Author:** ![jmurray4](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jmurray4/32/2301_2.png) [@jmurray4](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jmurray4)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175/13 "2012-08-12T20:43:13Z")
> [@phalstead](#): > > Huh? > > I would have to say Jay has put it as simple as it can be. The OIR has been very receptive to the industry. Everyone does know there have been meetings in Tallahassee right? I think I saw Jay there… Yes, I was sitting next to you, John, & Russel. ---
**Author:** ![hsuarez](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/hsuarez/32/56670_2.png) [@hsuarez](https://forum.nachi.org/u/hsuarez)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175/14 "2012-08-13T03:41:09Z")
Hello, I just passed my wind mitigation course, And I am new to the business. wanted to see if any one can help me find some sample wind mitigation reports and ideas so my FIRST report could look professional. FUSTRATED ---
**Author:** ![jmurray4](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jmurray4/32/2301_2.png) [@jmurray4](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jmurray4)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175/15 "2012-08-13T03:59:44Z")
> [@hsuarez](#): > > Hello, > > I just passed my wind mitigation course, And I am new to the business. wanted to see if any one can help me find some sample wind mitigation reports and ideas so my FIRST report could look professional. FUSTRATED Search the board there are several guys offering the programs that run on adobe. John Shishilla has a set that is very good. Good luck and update your location, we like to know were people are operating. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![acox](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/acox/32/57038_2.png) [@acox](https://forum.nachi.org/u/acox)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175/16 "2012-08-13T17:33:08Z")
> [@jshishilla](#): > > I suggest you take the FREE InterNachi wind mitigation class. :mrgreen: John, I HAVE taken the course. And passed. I even went back and reviewed it again. It doesn’t suggest a photo of the shiner, with a measuring tape is needed. In the several years of doing these, I haven’t been asked for this until now. I do have pics of the shiners, but not being measured. It just seems that every time I turn around, I get different requests from different insurers… so much for the standard form! ---
**Author:** ![jshishilla](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jshishilla/32/1188_2.png) [@jshishilla](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jshishilla)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175/17 "2012-08-13T21:44:28Z")
> [@acox](#): > > John, I HAVE taken the course. And passed. I even went back and reviewed it again. It doesn’t suggest a photo of the shiner, with a measuring tape is needed. > In the several years of doing these, I haven’t been asked for this until now. I do have pics of the shiners, but not being measured. > > It just seems that every time I turn around, I get different requests from different insurers… so much for the standard form! I have always included a photo of a ruler next to 8d nails. Here are some quotes from the class. > [@](#): > > DO NOT GUESS THE NAIL SIZE. > > To determine fastener size, you must locate deck fasteners that have missed the rafters/trusses and **measure the length of the fastener**.You will be able to find these missed fasteners in almost all attics. If a complete miss is not found, look for a sidesplitting fastener – that is, a fastener that pierces the side of the rafter. > [@](#): > > Take into account of the roof deck thickness. For 8d (2.5-inch) nails, **photograph the nail length with a ruler**. > [@](#): > > Pictures should be included with the form, and they must be clear and visible. > > Documentation should also be included as needed. The documentation should be clear and through enough that another person would come to the same conclusions without visiting the home. ---
**Author:** ![phalstead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/phalstead/32/179962_2.png) [@phalstead](https://forum.nachi.org/u/phalstead)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175/18 "2012-08-13T22:08:34Z")
This is another great reason on why it is so important to come to the meetings and the up coming convention. The convention will have a class on insurance inspections and you can also network with other inspectors to gain information. ---
**Author:** ![mmeeker](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mmeeker/32/59432_2.png) [@mmeeker](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mmeeker)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175/19 "2012-08-13T22:18:44Z")
Or maybe the O.I.R. should put any requirements on the form in a clear manner. ---
**Author:** ![evandeven](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/evandeven/32/373798_2.png) [@evandeven](https://forum.nachi.org/u/evandeven)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175/20 "2012-08-13T22:34:00Z")
> [@mmeeker](#): > > Or maybe the O.I.R. should put any requirements on the form in a clear manner. They wouldn’t want to do that… [Next page](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-photos/71175.md?page=2)