# Wind mit Scenerio #8 **URL:** \ **Category:** Florida and SUNachi Inspectors\ **Created:** [August 20, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937 "2010-08-20T20:41:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jshishilla](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jshishilla/32/1188_2.png) [@jshishilla](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jshishilla)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937/1 "2010-08-20T20:41:37Z")
Here is a classic, which is it? Roof to Wall Attachment: What is the weakest roof to wall connection? A. Toe Nails Rafter/truss anchored to top plate of wall using nails driven at an angle through the rafter/truss and attached to the top plate of the wall. B. Clips Metal attachments on every rafter/truss that are nailed to one side (or both sides in the case of a diamond type clip) of the rafter/truss and attached to the top plate of the wall frame or embedded in the bond beam. C. Single Wraps Metal Straps must be secured to every rafter/truss with a minimum of 3 nails, wrapping over and securing to the opposite side of the rafter/truss with a minimum of 1 nail. The Strap must be attached to the top plate of the wall frame or embedded in the bond beam in at least one place. D. Double Wraps Both Metal Straps must be secured to every rafter/truss with a minimum of 3 nails, wrapping over and securing to the opposite side of the rafter/truss with a minimum of 1 nail. Each Strap must be attached to the top plate of the wall frame or embedded in the bond beam in at least one place. E. Structural Anchor bolts structurally connected or reinforced concrete roof. F. Other: \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ G. Unknown or Unidentified H. No attic access ![IMG_2123.JPG](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/9/2/926e089db916b7a05faee4bf634d8590308fd4e1.jpeg) ![IMG_2120.JPG](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/f/0/f0864be623481f5fbdc26d3b3998714dfae2d218.jpeg) ![IMG_2122.JPG](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/0/f/0f4caab12d09cfb0f95d3acf17f34feb347b01af.jpeg) ![IMG_2121.JPG](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/e/5/e5bff703296d8091160b367f228ad1c8de58991b.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![dquigley](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dquigley/32/939_2.png) [@dquigley](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dquigley)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937/2 "2010-08-20T21:16:44Z")
oops I’m changing my answer — didn’t notice the pics The answer is “F” other — Straps are to far away from truss ---
**Author:** ![jjonas](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jjonas/32/301755_2.png) [@jjonas](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jjonas)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937/3 "2010-08-20T21:54:50Z")
Not from Florida, but that is irrelevant… Answer would be **H** … You cannot rate a connection that you cannot see, or verify even exists. Answer would not be G (unknown), because G also contains (unidentified). ---
**Author:** ![jshishilla](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jshishilla/32/1188_2.png) [@jshishilla](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jshishilla)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937/4 "2010-08-20T22:00:51Z")
> [@jjonas](#): > > Not from Florida, but that is irrelevant… > > Answer would be **H** … > > You cannot rate a connection that you cannot see, or verify even exists. > > Answer would not be G (unknown), because G also contains (unidentified). but the pictures are right there, I can see the connection. ---
**Author:** ![jjonas](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jjonas/32/301755_2.png) [@jjonas](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jjonas)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937/5 "2010-08-20T22:17:20Z")
> [@jshishilla](#): > > but the pictures are right there, I can see the connection. Oops, you’re right John, sorry. I read through the Poll choices, then through the opening post for more details, and skipped over the pics to see what others have posted. My post was a general statement (as your poll indicated by it’s choices). I didn’t realize the poll was to determine the connections in the pics. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![dquigley](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dquigley/32/939_2.png) [@dquigley](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dquigley)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937/6 "2010-08-20T22:46:34Z")
> [@jjonas](#): > > Oops, you’re right John, sorry. > > I didn’t realize the poll was to determine the connections in the pics. Same here, I went back and revised my original post – nice feature ---
**Author:** ![gbell](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/gbell/32/60114_2.png) [@gbell](https://forum.nachi.org/u/gbell)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 12:31am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937/7 "2010-08-21T00:31:42Z")
I agree. There is also not enough nails. ---
**Author:** ![dbonner](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dbonner/32/171063_2.png) [@dbonner](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dbonner)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937/8 "2010-08-21T01:20:25Z")
by definition(as the form reads) those are clips… ---
**Author:** ![dquigley](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dquigley/32/939_2.png) [@dquigley](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dquigley)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937/9 "2010-08-21T01:51:24Z")
> [@dbonner](#): > > by definition(as the form reads) those are clips… Why are they clips? to me they are improperly installed straps ---
**Author:** ![dbonner](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dbonner/32/171063_2.png) [@dbonner](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dbonner)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937/10 "2010-08-21T02:52:30Z")
they are poor straps, but dont have 3 nails on face and one on back- so they dont qualify as Single Wrap straps. but they are metal attachments on every truss that are nailed to one side and embedded in the bond beam, no? ---
**Author:** ![jshishilla](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jshishilla/32/1188_2.png) [@jshishilla](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jshishilla)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937/11 "2010-08-21T02:58:48Z")
> [@dbonner](#): > > they are poor straps, but dont have 3 nails on face and one on back- so they dont qualify as Single Wrap straps. but they are metal attachments on every truss that are nailed to one side and embedded in the bond beam, no? If that is the case; then wind mit Scenario #7 would qualify as clips also. That is what I posted in that Scenario, not enough nails for wraps. That was my point of posting this. I would easily mark this as clips, but WM SCenario #7 would be more difficult even though they both meet the definition on the form. ---
**Author:** ![jshishilla](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jshishilla/32/1188_2.png) [@jshishilla](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jshishilla)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 3:02am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937/12 "2010-08-21T03:02:00Z")
I would like to hear how you would get toe nails or no access from this scenario. ---
**Author:** ![dbonner](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dbonner/32/171063_2.png) [@dbonner](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dbonner)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 11:44am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937/13 "2010-08-21T11:44:04Z")
> [@jshishilla](#): > > If that is the case; then wind mit Scenario #7 would qualify as clips also. That is what I posted in that Scenario, not enough nails for wraps. > > That was my point of posting this. > > I would easily mark this as clips, but WM SCenario #7 would be more difficult even though they both meet the definition on the form. yeah-#7 is more subjective because they are so poorly installed-according to the form-they are clips, but one could describe them next to “other” , or put clips, and describe them in a sidenote. Either way would not be incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![wcampbell2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c0e974/32.png) [@wcampbell2](https://forum.nachi.org/u/wcampbell2)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 12:37pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937/14 "2010-08-21T12:37:07Z")
I agree that according to the form they are clips. We’re using our own subjectivity in saying they’re not because they aren’t 1/4" away or less. As far as wraps. My interpretation as far as nails is that there must be at least 3 nails total with one of those three nails on the opposite side and that 4 total nails are not needed to meet the criteria of a single wrap. What’s your take. ---
**Author:** ![dbonner](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dbonner/32/171063_2.png) [@dbonner](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dbonner)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 1:25pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937/15 "2010-08-21T13:25:48Z")
To qualify as single wraps- they need to have 3 nails on one side, wrap over and have at least 1 nail on the other side. Thats 4 nails total to qualify for single wraps. This i am 100% confident of being the current industry standard. ---
**Author:** ![dquigley](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dquigley/32/939_2.png) [@dquigley](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dquigley)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 1:51pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937/16 "2010-08-21T13:51:06Z")
> [@wcampbell2](#): > > My interpretation as far as nails is that there must be at least 3 nails total with one of those three nails on the opposite side and that 4 total nails are not needed to meet the criteria of a single wrap. What’s your take. Dennis Bonners response is the general accepted interpretation of the nailing - 4 nails total, 3 on one side and one on the other side. I would agree with you that it could be interpreted to mean a total of three with one of those being on the other side. In a court of law i’m not sure which would prevail since there is ambiguity, however, we have been taught to use the 4 total nail method. ---
**Author:** ![dquigley](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dquigley/32/939_2.png) [@dquigley](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dquigley)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937/17 "2010-08-21T14:06:05Z")
I’m having a little difficulty believing that classifying these inproperly installed single wraps as clips. I do agree that they are “metal attachments on every rafter/truss that are nailed to one side ---- of rafter/truss —”, but is this the best description of the fastening system. We obviously have a single wrap strap that doesn’t qualify as a single wrap strap due to nailing and spacing issues. On one hand I want to classify them as “other” (F) due to their improper installation, then on the other hand I see the argument that they only qualify as clips. But will they even perform adequately as clips if they are installed improperly? Scenario 7 would not in my opinion, and i would definately classify that scenario as “other (F)”. This scenario is different, they possibly would perform as clips. I think that either way we could all agree that additional descriptive notes are necessary to document and back up our classification used. ---
**Author:** ![dquigley](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dquigley/32/939_2.png) [@dquigley](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dquigley)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 2:10pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937/18 "2010-08-21T14:10:33Z")
> [@jshishilla](#): > > I would like to hear how you would get toe nails or no access from this scenario. I too would like to hear from some of the people (five) who have marked “toe nail” — I originally voted for toe nail myself not realizing that there were photos attached. I thought it was a poll on which of the items was weakest. That is probably what happened with the others that voted this way as well. ---
**Author:** ![gbell](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/gbell/32/60114_2.png) [@gbell](https://forum.nachi.org/u/gbell)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937/19 "2010-08-21T14:49:28Z")
It isn’t going to be long before every wind mit done by a non preferred vendor will be reinspected. So when looking at a scenario it would be wise to ask yourself how that other inspector is going to rate it. Keep in mind that the other inspector is going to be looking for reasons to deny a discount that you approved. I have a feeling that the insurance industry is going to reduce these discounts by 60% or more given the new rules. ---
**Author:** ![wcampbell2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c0e974/32.png) [@wcampbell2](https://forum.nachi.org/u/wcampbell2)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937/20 "2010-08-21T14:57:00Z")
Does Bill Yorks class state that 4 nails are mandatory? Because in my eyes there is no industry standard, I try very hard to squeeze every risk senario out of the wording of the form. In my eyes based on that I see 3 nails being plausable. I’m looking for more input if I could on this item. Thanks. [Next page](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wind-mit-scenerio-8/51937.md?page=2)