Windows and SGD not permitted?

Boy you guys like to argue a lot, but I have learned much more than I ever wanted to know about impact windows.

My friend is in the process of buying a house, and a lot of fishy stuff is going on.

All the double hung windows were properly permitted 7-8 years ago. Several of the fixed windows and SGDs were NOT.

I know just enough to be dangerous, but I believe the reason they didn’t pull a permit is that the NOA was not finalized at the time of install. It became final several months later, but has been expired for years.

To complicate things, the window company listed on the invoice didn’t have a license at the time, so the permit was pulled by a CBC. Being Florida, I assume the CBC took cash and the window company installed everything.

I found this:

  1. What happens if the windows were not approved at the time of install? No credit?
  2. Does the sacrificial glass need to match the NOA exactly? The NOA and manufacturer say it should be 3/16. The etchings say 5/32.

What did the etching and labels say on the units (besides thickness)? I wouldn’t worry about a 2 month difference in the NOA, as long it’s the right one. Sounds like you need to do some more research on what is actually installed. What area are you in?

Thanks Brad,

It’s in unincorporated Pinellas County, so right in your area.

I wholeheartedly agree that more info on what is installed is needed. He was only able to get photos of a few of the etchings on the windows, and didn’t know to look for the labels. Everyone had agreed on a time and date for a chimney sweep to perform an inspection, but once it was mentioned a wind mitigation inspector (1) was going to show up, the listing agent cancelled.

Hopefully access to the property will be given on Monday (tomorrow). Unfortunately, they have NOT specified a time yet. Based on past history, most likely they will not specify a time until the last second in an attempt to prevent someone like you from being present. I’ll try to have him give you a call if they ever specify a time.

Without going into too much detail, the seller and broker have been EXTREMELY shady the entire time: lied about the sliders being permitted, withheld contradictory information, and sent a NOA for a completely different product in an attempt to deceive my friend.

So does the fact that they were not permitted even matter?

Ronaldo

Note 1: I assume it’s best to avoid wind mitigators who do this as a side job. :wink:

Brad,

I apologize for they delay. I’m not sure if my original response got lost/delayed in moderation, or if there was a user malfunction on my end.

The property is located in unincorporated Pinellas County, so right in your area.

Yes, more information on what is actually installed is definitely needed. My friend was able to get pictures of some (but not all) of the etchings, but was unaware that he needed to look for the labels too.

Unfortunately the seller’s agent is uncooperative. Access was requested a few days ago, and it MAY be granted for today (Monday), but they have refused to specify an exact time, which makes it impossible to get a professional like you into the property.

The whole situation has been very fishy. The owner claims her late husband handled all the windows, yet one window was stamped years after he had died.

I’ll keep you guys updated once he has more information.

Ronaldo

Call or email if you want help with this. Your friend has every right to know what he is buying, and whether any insurance discounts are warranted or not.

Thanks Brad,

As expected, the agent only gave about 2 hours notice before allowing him in, so there wasn’t time for him to call you.

On the plus side, he was able to take pictures and videos of all the windows.

Two of the sliders had stickers with NOA No. 04-1020.03, which is an impact rated Windoor Inc SGD Series 8000.

The third slider has no NOA sticker, or any identifying marks, and is noticeably different than the two Windoor SGDs. It had etchings:

DCA ,LSG
ANSI Z97.1 2004 [90 degree turn] CLG-1 undefined
16 CFR 1201 CII [90 degree turn] SGCC 2463UA 5/16

and (on second pane)

CTG TEMPERED
16CFR 1201 II
SGCC 1922 5/32U
ANSI Z97 1-1984

It sounds like they are insulated&impact, but I’m guessing with no stickers, and no permit, it’s unlikely to be approved or even pass a County permit inspection?

One of the unpermitted fixed windows is a Custom Window Systems Model “8300 Fixed Vinyl Picture with Fin” FL 5859.2 (from 2007), but the glass is stamped 2012, and a hand written note says it was installed in 2013.

It could just be an amazing coincidence, but all the unpermitted windows and SGD have water stains on the ceilings under them.

It’s probably best to run away from this one…

Ronaldo