Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jeff,
If my memory serves me correctly, most of the problems associated with the Zinsco panels were from the breakers being made in another country and the "clip" mechanism where they contact the breaker being loose and/or sloppy.
A pair of needle nose pliers were used to tighten up the connectors where they attach to the buss bars, solving the problems of the overheating, failing to trip scenarios and the melting buss bars.
Since that is such an open panel, you should be able to readily verify any arcing, melted buss, or overheating/scorch marks.
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
The problem with Zinsco panels is the breakers don’t always trip, the bus bars are anodized aluminum which are easily scraped with the breaker contacts, the breaker contacts and bus bars both arc up and burn up, the bus bars burn through (they are only aluminum - or some alloy like it - which has a low melting temperature), etc.
The breaker contacts are long slots with spring contacts, the bus bars are angle metal, the breakers are designed to be inserted straight onto the large flat surface of the bus bar. However, the breakers must first be hooked on the end (like all other breakers), then rotated onto the bus bars. This springs the breaker contact apart, as well as scratches the bus bar anodized plating.
There is no cure for this (squeezing the breaker contacts with needle nose pliers only verifies one thing, that if you were successful, the spring contacts have lost their spring tension - you should not be able to bend them).
Like FPE panels, there is but one fix - replacement.
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I agree with Jerry for the most part. I don’t usually recommend “absolute replacement.” But regardless of it’s condition, I always recommend further evaluation (we beat up this issue in the FPE thread).
Non-tripping breakers, loose fitting breakers and corrosion are among the main problems with Zinsco panels that warrant these recommendations. The high cost of replacement breakers is another (less critical) issue.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: James D Mosier This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
jpeck wrote:
the bus bars are anodized aluminum which are easily scraped with the breaker contacts..... This springs the breaker contact apart, as well as scratches the bus bar anodized plating.
If the bus bars are truely anodized they would have to to be scraped with the breaker contacts or something to allow an electrical connection. Anodize is an insulator.
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jim,
If you notice, I stated "anodized plating", because I did not know exactly what to call it.
Main Entry: an?od?ize
Pronunciation: 'a-n&-"dIz
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -ized; -iz?ing
: to subject (a metal) to electrolytic action as the anode of a cell in order to coat with a protective or decorative film
- an?od?iza?tion /"a-"nO-d&-'zA-sh&n, "a-n&-/ nou
That is what that plating was for, it protects the aluminum from the wear and tear of the physical contact between the breakers and the aluminum bus bars. I believe you can "anodize" with many products, because "anodize" is the process, not just a particular finish. However, if you know the proper terminology to describe what was done to those bus bars, I am very interested in learning it.
Looking forward to learning something I've always (well, not ALWAYS, but for a long time) wondered about. What was the process used to protect those bus bars and what was it called. Anyone?
Originally Posted By: James D Mosier This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jerry,
I do not know what the bus bar coating is.
I am unfamiliar with Zinsco panels as I am not an inspector (yet). I see from the pictures that the coating is aluminum colored or clear. Is it possible that it is anodize and the scraping is a required function? Has anyone ever taken a meter to one to check for continuity?
There are some other coatings that do conduct electricity, I will inquire about them when I get to work.
15 years in the aluminum business and I can finally see the end of the tunnel............... It's in China.
Originally Posted By: rbracklow This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hi Jeff,
Hey, is this electrical panel and boxes from that old abandoned house siiting on the right hand side down in that canyon going up Hwy 14, just before you get to Aqua Dulce??  
That is quite a sight. Thanks for sharing this with us - send the pictures to Gerry, he can use them for his album.
Ron.
-- The highest compliment my clients can give me, is the referral of their Friends, Family and Business Associates!
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Actually Ron, this is an occupied home in Canyon Country. These panels are quite common here in Santa Clarita. I come across at least one each week.
Many of the electricians I've consulted with consider these panels worse than FPE panels. Several won't even work on these systems unless it's to replace it. Go figure 
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
jpope wrote:
Many of the electricians I've consulted with consider these panels worse than FPE panels. Several won't even work on these systems unless it's to replace it. Go figure 
I don't know about WORSE than FPEs, but they sure are not any better.
I put them both in the same pile of junk (and as junk) and agree with your electrician friends.
Asking if Zinsco is better then FPE or if FPE is better than Zinsco is like asking if you want to burn to death or die by fire. I'll take C) neither of the above.
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
Asking if Zinsco is better then FPE or if FPE is better than Zinsco is like asking if you want to burn to death or die by fire. I'll take C) neither of the above.
I agree Jerry. But it's true, several electricians I've spoken with aren't too concerned with FPE panels. Others, as you so eloquently put it, lump them into the same pile of junk. They do not differentiate one as being better or worse.
I tend to think that FPE has a worse reputation with quite a bit of documented proof.
I consider Douglas Hansen to be quite an authority when it comes to inspection of electrical systems as they pertain to home inspections.
Last year I asked him what his take was on Zinsco Panels. This was his response.
11/04/2003
Quote:
Zinsco is no longer making panels. Replacement breakers are available, though they are quite expensive. Usually electricians will use breakers from a salvage supply when working on a Zinsco panel. They were once very common throughout the Northwest. The basic problem is corrosion at the bus bars, and some of the later breakers weren't very reliable. There have been no product recalls. It is not nearly the horror of something like a Federal Pacific panel.
Douglas Hansen
So I guess I'm getting conflicting information The only consistency is the fact that both Zinsco AND FPE are inherently bad panels.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: rbracklow This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Dennis,
Do I have to remind you that the Napa/Sonoma area is THE WINE COUNTRY!!  
I hear that in your area they make good raisins though!!
Ron.
-- The highest compliment my clients can give me, is the referral of their Friends, Family and Business Associates!
Originally Posted By: dhoffman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Ron,
You need to check your map - Fresno - Bakersfield is raisin country 
Lodi is an up and coming Wine Appellation
Now, back to panels, I said it needed to be labeled and if I remember correctly, some wiring needed further attention. The bus bar was not scorched or damaged. I think the outside cover was also coming off and needed service.
.