[/FONT] I have never filled out a Citizens form, nor have I copied it. I was doing the “four point” inspection before there was a form from any insurance company. Like I said, agents and underwriters have not taken any issues with the information I provide them. If it brings a lawsuit, so be it I will deal with that should it come.
By definition a four point does not meet the requirements of a home inspection. Also considering that a four point can be filled out by a contractor, I can not see how you could think that the requirements are the same. I was doing them before home inspectors had a license.
What is your point? I was doing 4 pt. inspections before home inspector licensing went into effect and I do not have a contractor license in Florida. I do agree that a 4 pt. inspection does not meet the current definition of “home inspection” in statute. I am not following your point regarding contractors and 4 pt. inspections. Are you saying that simply by being a contractor, the requirements and liabilities are different than if you were simply a lowly home inspector?
Are you inspecting the structure to complete the form?
Are you offering a written report listing deficiencies and safety hazards?
Are you charging a fee to the buyer?
Read the underlined, that doesn’t sound like a 4-point to you?
(please note the term “Home Inspection Services”, meaning more than one type of inspection)
468.8311 Definitions.—As used in this part, the term: (4) “Home inspection services” means a limited visual examination of the following readily accessible installed systems and components of a home: the structure, electrical system, HVAC system, roof covering, plumbing system, interior components, exterior components, and site conditions that affect the structure, for the purposes of providing a written professional opinion of the condition of the home.
**61-30.801 ****Standards of Practice, General. **
(1) Home inspections performed to these Standards of Practice are intended to provide the client with information regarding the overall condition of installed systems and components of the home based on observation of the visible and apparent condition of the structure and components at the time of the home inspection and to report on those systems and components inspected that, in the professional opinion of the inspector, are significantly deficient or at the end of their service lives. A home inspection does not include the prediction of future conditions.
And this is what a 4-point says you are doing, do they sound the same?
C****ERTIFYING THE CONDITION OF EACH SYSTEM
The Florida-licensed inspector is required to certify the condition of the electrical, HVAC and plumbing systems. “Acceptable Condition” means that each system is working as intended and there are no visible hazards or deficiencies.
A****DDITIONAL COMMENTS OR OBSERVATIONS
This section of the 4-Point inspection must be completed with full details/descriptions if ***any ***of the following are noted on the inspection:
Updates (provide full details of the types of updates, date completed and by whom)
Any system determined ***NOT ***to be in good working order.
Any visible hazards/deficiencies are present
Photos must accompany each 4-Point inspection submitted to Citizens. The minimum photo requirement for all submissions is a front and rear elevation. However, there are additional photo requirements for a 4-Point inspection such as:
Open Main Electrical Panel and Interior Door HVAC heating system
*ALL *hazards or deficiencies noted (with dated manufacturer’s plate)
(A 4-point REQUIRES pictures, do you see that in your standards or statutes?)
If you are leaving out any portion of your standards or statutes, this applies:
468.8321 Disclosures.—Prior to contracting for or commencing a home inspection, a home inspector shall provide to the consumer a copy of his or her license to practice home inspection services in this state and a written disclosure that contains the scope and any exclusions of the home inspection.
61-30.604 Citations.
(1) The following violations may be resolved by the issuance of a citation pursuant to Section 455.224, F.S. and Chapter 61-30, F.A.C.: (c) Failure to provide a copy of the disclosure of the scope and exclusions of a home inspection prior to contracting for or commencing a home inspection in violation of Section 468.8321, F.S.
But there are situations when you are exempt from your standards, they are listed below:
468.831 Exemptions.—The following persons are not required to comply with any provision of this part:
(1) An authorized government employee of the United States, this state, or any municipality, county, or other political subdivision who is conducting home inspection services within the scope of that employment, as long as the employee does not hold out for hire to the general public or otherwise engage in home inspection services.
(2) A person acting within his or her authorized scope of practice as licensed under federal, state, or local codes or statutes, except when such person holds himself or herself out for hire to the public as a “certified home inspector,” “registered home inspector,” “licensed home inspector,” “home inspector,” “professional home inspector,” or any combination thereof stating or implying licensure under this part.
(3) An officer appointed by the court.
(4) A person performing safety inspections of utility equipment in or on a home or building or other duties conducted by or for a utility under chapter 366 or rules adopted by the Public Service Commission.
(5) A certified energy auditor performing an energy audit of any home or building or other duties conducted by or for a utility under chapter 366 or rules adopted by the Public Service Commission.
I’m not sure how much more simpler I could make this, you qualify with your license to perform an inspection but are not bound by the qualifications and standards/statutes of that licensing because you said so? That’s pretty much what it boils down to…
As things are right now we control our destiny, we can produce a disclosure or list of exclusions pertaining to our standards that is legal per our licensure. If you are performing these types of inspections, you better have the same type of contract or disclosure like you have for your Home Inspection because they are home inspections. Now we want a declarative statement saying 468 and 61-30 don’t apply? You do realize that takes away your ability to present a written disclosure or list of exclusions?
I’m saying it cannot possibly fall under home inspection licensing law.
I hope that you are correct. Hopefully- we will know the official answer soon via declaratory statement from DBPR. That is assuming they dont try to avoid answering the petition as they have intentionally done on multiple other declaratory petitions relating to home inspector licensing.
I like the way you think! It’s what is going to happen…make no mistake. The DBPR doesn’t qualify person to perform certain inspections, the OIR and insurance companies do. You are qualified to perform that inspection through your license and nothing else, the DBPR isn’t going to exempt inspectors from their licensing just because a few inspectors don’t want to actually do their job. You have a home inspections agreement/disclosure, why wouldn’t you have one for 4-points and wind mitigations?
As things sit now, we have control of that…if the DBPR comes back and says 468 and 61-30 do not apply, say good-bye to the ability. You’ll be at the mercy of the OIR, Insurance industry, and the courts. That hasn’t worked out to well as we all know.
You my friend, are a plaintiff’s wet dream…I hope for your sake it never comes to that. Protect yourself, your business, and your assets…
Stated on every 4pt that we do:
“A Four-Point Insurance Inspection is far less in scope than a standard home inspection. This Four-Point Insurance Inspection is a limited, visual survey of the roof, heating/air conditioning, plumbing, and electrical systems. Furthermore, ages and life expectancies are approximations only.”
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if the declarative statement comes back and it says 468 and 61-30 don’t apply…that statement means nothing as 468.8321 and 61-20.604(c) will not be applicable.
**61-30.604 Citations. **FONT= The following violations may be resolved by the issuance of a citation pursuant to Section 455.224, F.S. and Chapter 61-30, [FONT= ]F.A.C.: /FONT Failure to provide a copy of the disclosure of the scope and exclusions of a home inspection prior to [FONT= ]contracting for or commencing a home inspection in violation of Section 468.8321, F.S.
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468.8321 Disclosures.—Prior to contracting for or commencing a home inspection, a home inspector shall provide to the consumer a copy of his or her license to practice home inspection services in this state and a written disclosure that contains the scope and any exclusions of the home inspection.
Prior to home inspection licensing the home inspectors were only allowed to turn in 4 point inspections on specific forms. These forms were approved to give the consumer a choice of who could fill out the form. This all came about around 2004 when Bill Mason introduced the ASHI inspection survey to Citizens. Soon after that FABI and NACHI had their own forms approved. That is where your NACHI form came from. Without those forms the insurance industry would not accept a 4 point from a home inspector. This did not apply to contractors. They could use any form they wanted.
Ahhhhh the Semi good ole days 
Four point inspection is not a home inspection, these laws would not apply.
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Well, lets see if we can figure it out together…
First, what is a “home inspection”? For that we look to the exact definition provided by the state:
468.8311 Definitions.—As used in this part, the term:
(4) “Home inspection services” means a limited visual examination of the following readily accessible installed systems and components of a home: the structure, electrical system, HVAC system, roof covering, plumbing system, interior components, exterior components, and site conditions that affect the structure, for the purposes of providing a written professional opinion of the condition of the home.
Did you see what they did there? It’s listed as home inspections “services”, this concludes that there will be varying types of inspections and not just one specific inspection only as “services” is plural(plural means more than one). Also, the 4-points are listed in the statutes as they appear providing a written report(or form) listing deficiencies and safety hazards with “exclusions” to your standards. As a licensed home inspector you will perform certain services related to your licensure, your not limited to only performing complete home inspection. This is proven in statute 468 and 61-30.604(c) as any inspection that doesn’t include statutory requirements of your standards will require disclosure prior to commencing or contracting for the inspection.
468.8321 Disclosures.—Prior to contracting for or commencing a home inspection, a home inspector shall provide to the consumer a copy of his or her license to practice home inspection services in this state and a written disclosure that contains the scope and any exclusions of the home inspection.
Now, there are cases where you are right and certain individuals will be exempt form the standards of your licensing. This is presented in Statute 468.831 and lists ALL instances where you are exempt from the statutes and standards of your licensing. Question is, do you fall under any of these categories?
468.831 Exemptions.—The following persons are not required to comply with any provision of this part:
(1) An authorized government employee of the United States, this state, or any municipality, county, or other political subdivision who is conducting home inspection services within the scope of that employment, as long as the employee does not hold out for hire to the general public or otherwise engage in home inspection services.
(2) A person acting within his or her authorized scope of practice as licensed under federal, state, or local codes or statutes, except when such person holds himself or herself out for hire to the public as a “certified home inspector,” “registered home inspector,” “licensed home inspector,” “home inspector,” “professional home inspector,” or any combination thereof stating or implying licensure under this part.
(3) An officer appointed by the court.
(4) A person performing safety inspections of utility equipment in or on a home or building or other duties conducted by or for a utility under chapter 366 or rules adopted by the Public Service Commission.
(5) A certified energy auditor performing an energy audit of any home or building or other duties conducted by or for a utility under chapter 366 or rules adopted by the Public Service Commission.
When we wrap things up in a nice bow, it all makes sense(at least to some of us it does). You’re a “home inspector”, the reason I know that is because you have a “home inspection” license.
- Did you sign that from where it says “home inspector”?
- Did you inspect the home to complete the form?
- Did you provide a report listing required items or deficiencies/hazards reporting the condition of the structure?
- Were you paid a fee to do so?
- Were you required to be licensed to perform the inspection?
Guess what?
If you have a home inspectors license they absolutely would apply. You have to operate under the scope of you license. Right now you have a legal defense by way of a disclosure. Take that away and what do you have. You, as a home inspector may no longer be able to do a 4 point.
Dont you have to be a licensed inspector to do 4 points?
It is your story and perception of reality. You can tell it any way you like.
…you certainly can’t be a “unlicensed” inspector…
The statutes are there, prove me wrong…
I thought DBPR said in a statement that a home inspection must include all eight areas list in the law to be called a home inspection. If they are not inspected they must be listed with the reason why they were not inspected. I have never seen a four point with this information.
We also do not give reasons why a system is deficient or make recommendations for repairs on a four point. These are required on a home inspection.
Moreover, they have stated that insurance inspections are not home inspections.