Originally Posted By: eidaj This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Sorry if this is a stupid question but are these hairline cracks or are they caused by the forms? I see some pitting but again not sure if it was caused by the forms when they were taken off.
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Those pics look like a pour line, which is cause as the first truckload of cement begins to cure prior to the second truckload arriving. It is common, and rarely if ever causes any failure.
Originally Posted By: kmcmahon This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
That’s called a cold-joint. It’s what happens when concrete sets up between loads.
In other words… there must have been significant time separation between one truckload of concrete and another, as the first started to set-up before the next was poured.
It’s considered a weak point in the wall pour. I’d have them contact the architect or engineer to find out what corrections (if any) need to be taken.
This happens quite often, but some contractors know how to handle a cold joint when it happens.
Originally Posted By: cbuell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Just a little additional info on this type of “joint”. Typically when pouring a high wall, in order not to put undo strain on the forms, they will fill the forms part way and then do another lower section before coming back to the other area to complete the pour----this gives the first part time to set up a bit.
– It is easier to change direction than it is to forget where one has been.
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
cbuell wrote:
Typically when pouring a high wall, in order not to put undo strain on the forms, they will fill the forms part way and then do another lower section before coming back to the other area to complete the pour----this gives the first part time to set up a bit.
This may be true but it's a lousy excuse for poor quality and/or low budget work. Snap ties or taper ties can (should) be used to allow for a continuos pour on concrete walls. By the time you get to the top of a sixty foot wall, the lower portion has set-up well enough to help support the pressure.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: ccoombs This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I agree that they are cold joints. To be safe I would contact the architect or engineer. If there is vertical rebar in the wall, it won’t be a structural issue. If I was the engineer, I would also advise the client to contact the architect to verify/review any issues with water proofing etc.
Overall, it shouldn't be a problem but worth a little effort to ask questions now. Good luck!
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
Miscalculation of yardage would be my guess.
Not sure I would agree with that. The size of that basement looks like it would require at least two full truck loads. What with traffic and scheduling the trucks seldom arrive at their appointed time, especially between loads. It only takes a few minutes between loads to cause that. I would have to imagine that vertical rebar is required, so the joint shouldn't be any issue. They are very common, and builders work with them every day.
While inspecting in VA for several years, almost every unfinished basement I did had a cold joint (they call them pour lines there for slang) and I never saw any settlement issues or failure issues at any of them. Some were over 25 years old.
Originally Posted By: cmccann This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I agree with Blaine on this. I see a lot of that up here in Michigan, mainly on the newer builds. It’s a non issue. If you were to make a big deal of this here in Michigan you would be able to hear them laughing at you all the way home.
Originally Posted By: eidaj This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
This is my home or will be once it’s complete. I’m hearing responses both ways, issue and non-issue lol, it’s never easy is it … thanks for your input, I appreciate it
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
issue is misleading. The degree to which it may be an issue is absolutely relative to the soil conditions and the engineered design of the wall.
We don't have many basements in CA, so to those of you who say this is the "norm," I can't argue that point, however, if this were my house, I wouldn't be so "easy-going" about this type of workmanship.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
jpope wrote:
We don't have many basements in CA, so to those of you who say this is the "norm," I can't argue that point, however, if this were my house, I wouldn't be so "easy-going" about this type of workmanship.
I had two in my house in VA, because the foundation was too large to pour out of two mixers, so they needed three loads and traffic in northern VA stinks. Never concerned me in the least. My cousin's house also has two, and I poured it with him, and he is a foundation contractor. 15 years and still strong. Now his electric system.... 
Originally Posted By: mkober This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I’m leaning with Jeff on this issue. “Bleeding” cold joints can be common in the spring of the year, when water tables rise and the builder scrimped on his foundation water-proofing–I’ve seen several in unfinished basements in Wisconsin. The expensive fix is to bring in a foundation water-proofing outfit to tear out all of the landscaping within 6 feet of the house, blast-clean and reseal the exterior walls and possibly throw in an under-drain system. I’ve monitored such a project first-hand, and it’s not pretty. If your soil is naturally well-drained (permeable), there is less likelihood of having problems.
Reinforcing steel is easily detected in a concrete wall (if verifiable plans are not available or inspection records don't exist) by using a pachometer--an electronic device which senses the presence of iron and steel. At $1600 a pop from James NDT, most small- or part-time inspectors couldn't justify springing for one, although a much cheaper variation is available (Model MT-6, by Zircon) which detects all metals but with which I've had only a smattering of experience.
Originally Posted By: wpedley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I also have to agree with Jeff on this one.
I've also poured quiet a lot of walls in Pa. and this was most certainly a mis-calculation on the contractors part.This would not be acceptable,
rebar or not.
What will happen is that you will get water penetration through that joint at some point in time.No doubt about it.
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hard to believe that they would miscalculate the amount of concrete needed. For one, it is a simple calculation and second, that looks like a tract housing development where they have poured that foundation many times before. Unless they get it wrong every time
Originally Posted By: cradan This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
seen a leaking or other obvious structural problem as a result.
It would help if someone on our BB with the appropriate background and experience could authoritatively inform us as to any documented problems with the practice...
or will be once it’s complete. I’m hearing responses both ways, issue and non-issue lol, it’s never easy is it … thanks for your input, I appreciate it