This has some good info about the bonding of CSST and the requirements behind it. One point in the article they state a home inspector pointed out the lack of bonding to the Electrician.
Facts are the electrician is not responsible to do anything other than what is required and allowed per Section 250.104. The requirements for additional bonding per the IFGC and Local Amendments and CSST manufacturers are not a electricians requirement. Just so we are also clear…Section 110.3(B) does not apply here.
So a siding installer has to install siding per manufacturer’s instructions, but an electrician can ignore manufacturer’s instructions?
What Paul is saying is the NEC considers the gas line to be bonded by the EGC in the circuit run to the appliance. The additional bonding requirements are not in the NEC so that puts the responsibility on someone else.
Here in lies a misconception concerning an electrician installing according to any instructions that comes with something.
110.3(B) says that when an electrician is installing any electrical device that the electrician must install this piece of equipment by any installation instructions that are included with the listing of the equipment.
(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.
Two things come into play here. First the electrician is not installing the CSST and second the instructions be it in the package or a letter published by the manufacturer of the equipment means nothing unless it is part of the listing of that equipment. To find the instructions included with the listing of the product typing in the label number found on the device will render the installation instructions.
The NEC covers the bonding requirements for gas pipes and this is all the electrician is bound by law to accomplish. Should the installer of the CSST need this bonding done here in NC they would be required by law to hire an electrician to make the installation. I for one refuse to make this type of bond so they must either find someone else or change their method. Personally I think the stuff should be outlawed.
Edited to add;
If this junk is used on a job that is electrically permitted in the name of my company the electrician that does the bonding will have to get a permit in his company’s name as I will let it be known that I did not bond any of that death trap installation.
Yeah…what i said. Its not the electricians responsibility to do anything beyond 250.104 period.
As stated…instructions mean nothing to the electrician when they are for CSST. Just sayin…
Many builders have written the bonding of the CSST into their electrician’s scope of work.
The builder cannot mandate any electrical installation. The builder might mention the size of appliances to be installed but the installation must be code compliant.
There is nothing to be found in any electrical code that would require the bonding of CSST gas pipes other than what is found in 250.104(B) so if the builder says CSST is going to be used it still wouldn’t mandate that the electrician bonding around the junk.
The installation instructions that comes with this junk is for the person that is installing the CSST pipe and not for someone that has nothing to do with the installation. This being said the installation instructions will be addressed to the plumber or HVAC installer and it will be their responsibility to ensure that the installation complies. This will not be a builder or electrician requirement.
If the installer wants the bonding done it will be up to the installer to hire the electrician to do the bonding. I for one refuse to have anything to do with this death trap installation. There is enough research done to prove that the bonding has little effect on the junk being damaged or stopping the junk from leaking so why waste time bonding it.
As a home inspector I would call the junk out and use the available research to show the dangers involved with its use just as a lot of HI will use the internet to condemn FPE panels.
Now…if the electrician is asked to do it then Kiss Em…they are helping the Plumber out . Oh and don’t forget to pay the man for his time.
How wrong. When the bid is put out, the scope of work is what they are bidding on. To say they don’t have to do what the JOB/BID requires is ridiculous. If they bid and are hired to perform ABCD and they only perform ABD, they don’t get paid in my book.
I have been in business for more than 35 years and been in the electrical trade for more than 44.
I have done all types of wiring from wiring mobile homes to high rise buildings. Done everything from residential service work to chemical plants.
I have worked from elaborate drawings to bare code minimum layouts but in every case the NEC trumped anything that was drawn on the plans, asked for by a builder, inserted by an engineer, or requested by a designer.
No builder anywhere on this planet can mandate that an electrician do anything that relates to any other trade. The bonding of this junk being installed in people’s homes is not regulated by any electrical code. It is only a suggestion made by the manufacturer in some side winding attempt to keep this junk on the market. The suggestion is made to whomever does the install and the electrician is not doing the install.
With all the hype about certain brand names of electrical panels and the uproar brought forth by Home Inspectors concerning their safety pray tell me why Home Inspectors are not all over this junk that is known to cause fires? Why are they not calling this junk out as a defect?
Builder says that they are installing CSST supply lines to certain appliances and wants the electrician to bond this junk. I say NO! Now one of two things is going to happen, I wire the house or I don’t but I promise I will not do anything to CSST pipe. I will leave that liability on whoever decides that it must be installed.
Let’s take this one step future and say that in the scope of the bid for a single family dwelling the builder wants #14 NM-B cable installed for the well that is 200 feet from the house and 300 feet deep. According to your statement I must bid and install what the builder requested but the fact still remains that the code official will not pass NM-B installed outside and certainly not underground. There will be such a voltage drop over the small wire that the pump motor will not last very long.
No, I think that the one that is mistaken is the other way around. Wonder if that is why electricians are required to have a license and the reason for such things as plan review in inspection departments?
Mike, why not be helpful and post several sites you personally would reference regarding the dangers with CSST. I for one would not call it out as junk based on your opinion. You seem to have studied it, share your findings.
Mike is entitled to his opinion. My opinion is neither for nor against the product. The incidents of fire for this product is low in general. Obviously if an incident happens it will make the news and be a focus front issue. However, there are millions of these installations being done around the country today and the incidents are while dramatic, are still fewer and fewer.
The manufacturers of these products (and they are not electrical products so I am entitled to comment…
are stepping up the game and trying to make them more reliable by increasing the coating jacket thickness, changing the metallic makeup on the design and so on. So at the end of the day, Americans call out for lower cost alternatives and thus CSST is provided.
I still say far more deaths and damage is caused by poorly educated installers than on any single product of any industry. But again that’s only my opinion and not anyone else’s (association or individual) opinion.
James…as Jim stated. As an electrician I don’t install CSST nor do I connect to it unless asked. If I am asked to make the connection for CSST I don’t have to wait around to get it inspected either…i turn that over to the plumbing contractor and he waits for the inspector.
Manufacturer Instructions are for the responsible party…CSST instructions are for the installer of the CSST…at the end of the day the CSST installer is the responsible party…It’ not electrical equipment and my code [NEC] says nothing about compliance to it other than what I have already provided in Section 250.104.
I only see CSST a handful of times each year and rarely is it bonded, which I always call out. It is often not supported but instead has been laid across ductwork, metal strapping, even the steel webbing in prefabbed floor trusses. All of that contact is not allowed as I understand it from manufacturer instructions.
I appreciate any info on it that people can provide, but opinions can’t be used as my report source.
I’m not familiar with the debate as it is an emerging product in my area. If you guys have some trusted sources, for or against, post them for everyone to look through.
Just to clarify so there isn’t any confusion for newbies or others, bonding of CSST is required by both the 2009 UPC and the 2009 IRC:
UPC 1211.15.1 Pipe and Tubing other than CSST.
Each above ground portion of a gas piping system other than CSST that is likely to become energized shall be electrically continuous and bonded to an effective ground-fault current path.
IRC 2411.1.1 CSST. Corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system at the point where the gas service enters the building. The bonding jumper shall be not smaller than 6 AWG copper wire or equivalent.
Yep…and not the NEC, other than what Section 250.104 requires… just for additional clarity.
If a builder puts out bids for running a bond wire to the location of the CSST entering the building, the job is what it is. Either run the conductor or don’t take the job. We are not talking about improper installations as in your farcical example above. If I find the CSST is missing the bond, I recommend an electrician to make the installation. I would not want a plumber inside the panel making connections. Fine, you don’t like the material. Then don’t bid the job that is available.
You don’t even need to open the panel to install the bond. If the plumber is a gasfitter there product should be installed correctly by them.
4 NATIONAL ELECTRIC CODE
(NEC), Section 250.104b, states that “bonding all
piping and metal air ducts within the premises
will provide additional safety”. Gastite recommends
that all continuous metallic systems be
bonded and grounded. The owner should confirm
with an electrical or construction specialist that
each continuous metallic system in a structure
has been bonded and grounded by an electrical
professional in accordance with local building
codes. This should include, but is not limited to
metallic chimney liners, metallic appliance vents,
metallic ducting and piping,
Direct Bonding of Standard (Yellow) CSST
Design and Installation Guide Rather large pdf
CSST Safety Solution](http://www.csstsafety.com/CSST-solution.html) - Bonding and Grounding