Boy have I been told!

Local Inspection Issues Florida and SUNachi Inspectors
21

Please lets all start using common sense. Kind of like adhered directly to the sheathing? Pretty damn simple stuff as far s I am concerned on a lot of the stuff.

I can assure you all I will have some questions when I get ready to use the form but some things are actually pretty easy to understand.

You know the list gets bigger every day of folks who call me and email me and “seem” to share a lot of my opinions. Hell speak up and be heard no one has a right to their opinions more than you.

If you are worried about what clients and other think than post in the members section.

It is high time you all start acting like the professionals you claim to be and submit the facts as you see them and it it is not enough for the insurance companies let them pay their suckers to get involved.

No harm can come to you for submitting what you see as the truth. Do not stand by and let your clients get screwed because of a photo.

Remember I am always available to help or offer anyone my advice or opinion and with me it will always be honest. Keep the phone calls and emails coming it actually makes me feel like people are listening once and a while.

Do not be a sheep. Make your own decisions on how you interpret things and how you do the services you offer. Be different. Different stands out from the rest. Enjoy being your own boss and do not take crap or let your clients get screwed.

22

There is no better device, they all have been tested. It is the only truly accepted device. If I see a report(and I do) with any other device, I know immediately the inspector has no clue or does not care.

23

In some ways I admire the final decision you make when you do not find one but when it is a tract house built in 2005 etc… I know what it is and can determine the spacing. Customers should not get screwed when what is required by code at the time of construction if it passed its final inspection by the municipality it should be determined to be as it was supposed to be.

Older re-nailing jobs are a little different but anytime after 8d nails were required should be automatic if they passed the final roofing inspection.

It is my nature to stand up for those getting screwed by the system weather considered right or wrong by some I do not care.

I sleep well knowing I tried to help people get what they deserve.

24

I agree with now that would be a tell tail sign but I no longer ssee the need for one if we do not have to scan concrete. Why in the future would you see the device.

Disclaimer" I HAVE NOT FULLY EXAMINED THE NEW FORM AND HAVE NOT YET DECIDED HOW WILL PERFORM THE INSPECTIONS AND WHAT i WILL INCLUDE AS PROOF." I am still Learning :slight_smile:

i KNOW IT IS GOING TO BE PRETTIER AND HAVE MORE PAGES AND BE DESIGNED TO HELP ME GET MORE WORK BUT THE FINER DETAILS i HAVE NOT YET WORKED OUT YET.

maybe i Should just concentrate on learning to type correctly.

25

WE ARE NOT DOING CODE INSPECTIONS! We are looking for items listed on a form. You either find the proof or you do not. Because a home passed a code inspection or was supposed to have something does not mean it is ACTUALLY there. This is why we do the inspections. It is usually irrelevant if the home was built after 3/1/2002.

You make too many assumptions.

26

We agree on the code thing except when it comes to my example. Some times common sense should prevail.

Most have been assuming since the 1802 forms have been out that when a roof passes a final roofing inspection it meets code.

Why is this different?

Why does it always seem to me you lean more to the insurance companies side than the clients. I do believe you are honest but we just seem to view things differently.

You seem to want regulation and want to be told how to do things. I believe as professionals we should do things how we see fit as individuals as it is our name on the form. I believe our opinions should matter more that an easily faked photograph or the opinion of some guy that has never been in an attic.

Standardization and everyone doing thing the exact same way is ruining this business. It makes everyone worth the same in the eyes of the consumer.

27

Why do you not just listen to why things are the way they are? If you do not have the facts, you make assumptions. Listen to some of the instructors around the state and you will start to get it, something you refuse to do. You think your GC license means you automatically know more.

I do not want regulation I want comprehension. I was against inspector licensing in it’s current form. Standardization in answers is the only way an insurance inspection should be filled out.

For the record, uninformed, stubborn inspectors ruin this business and started the re-inspection business. You are their president.

Instead of trying to save your customer money, why do you not try to fill-out the report correctly. You can go the extra mile to prove you customer deserves a credit but you stretching the facts or making assumptions is what makes us look bad.

It is not about saving your customer money, it is about reporting verified facts.

28

What makes the instructors any smarter than those fellas who have done a couple thousand themselves.

It does not take squat to become an instructor or a continuing education provider.

Most do not have much real world “in the attic” experience anyhow.

"Why do you not just listen to why things are the way they are?’

i never will because it is bullsh-t.

I MAKE UP MY OWN MIND. iNSTRUCTORS OPINIONS ARE JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSES OPINIONS.

I will neve just follow blindly along. Those who do are fools.

29

Those stating that the roof receipt and/or statement from a roofer should be acceptable should watch out for 2 things - In my experience a photograph of a shiner with the ruler indicating length is ALL that is acceptable to the underwriters, period. Debating this point with a clerk in underwriting that has never even been in an attic will get you no where - As it stands they have all the power - any thing else is just whistling in the wind.

Secondly - I have personally seen the situation where the roofer swears up and down how everything is re-nailed - Similar to the current situation - there WERE shiners to be found - oddly enough they could only be located where sheathing had been replaced and none where there wasn’t a need to replace the sheathing - The roofer stated that "a different crew was replacing the sheathing, the ones re-nailing existing shingles were better at their job.

He was so sure that he came to the property and had his guy pull up shingles to prove it - guess what??? Plenty of staples in that roof deck - NO NAILS!

So I am not so readily accept the word of joe roofer. If the roofer’s word was good enough then they could just submit the receipt to the insurance company and they wouldn’t need us at all. - The insurance underwriters are not willing to accept a roof receipt or letter as proof, so I am not going to act as the middle man and use that for proof either.

30

Actually there are studies available on most of the data.

31

According to Meeker you are just agreeing with the insurance companies and not thinking for yourself.

I do agree with you though.

32

The powers that be - in this case the OIR has, through the methods that they used, like it or not, come up with a form and requirements for completing the form - in this case, photographic evidence is REQUIRED to proof existance of certain features - I did not design the form, nor did I decide on the picture requirements.

That beeing said - If I want to received payment for an insured to obtain some discounts I must complete the form and provide said photographic evidence - end of story - My opinion, the homeowners opinion, nor a statement from any roofing or other contractor is going to change this - either you can show photographic evidence or you cannot.

This is not a philosophical debate.

33

John, I have heard from homeowners that are told by their insurers that they do not need a wind mitigation because the of the age of the home (built after 2002). Why is that, in light of your last sentence above, it would make it relevant, would it not?

Bert

34

Some insururers give a max wind credit at home that was built after February 2002, without a wind mit.

35

That’s exactly my point. They are going on the date built and not verifying any mitigation features. They are “assuming” the home was built to code correct? Seems they should also be able to take a home inspectors word on any given feature then also. Just my thoughts.

Bert

36

I had three of those this week all built after 3/1/02 but all three were outside the wind borne debris region (no shutters). Wonder what kind of blanket discount they get ?
Another bad example of that is what about the houses that were designed for Internal Pressure ( between 3/1/02 and 6/1/07) inside a wind borne debris region with no opening protection? This of course excludes HVHZ areas. :shock:

37

Insurance companies manage their risk against statistics. Also when they want to write insurance in Florida they have to tell the state what rates they plan to give and to whom. Most will give the max wind credit for a new home, less a shutter credit. Once the state approves their plan rates that is what they have to use.

Then you have the state telling them they have to give credits for certain items, that is where we fit in with wind mits.

I am by no means an expert in this area, but that is the basic system. There is no taking anyone’s word. They know statistically it is a better risk.

You can complain about insurance companies all you want but they are regulated heavily. You should be complaining about the regulators **also **if you do not like how it is being done. Unfortunatly you will find between the laws, statistics; politics and money.

38

What makes the instructors any smarter than those fellas who have done a couple thousand themselves.

Let’s take John for instance. He has done thousands of these inspections and wrote the course. My Father told me a long time ago, there will always be someone who knows more than you do…learn from them, not from those who know less.

It does not take squat to become an instructor or a continuing education provider.
"Why do you not just listen to why things are the way they are?’
i never will because it is bullsh-t.

Whether it is or not really isn’t our concern. “It is what it is” (BB).

I MAKE UP MY OWN MIND. iNSTRUCTORS OPINIONS ARE JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSES OPINIONS.

No, competent instructors opinions carry quite a bit of weight.

I will neve just follow blindly along. Those who do are fools.

There is a difference in “following blindly” and doing what is supposed to be done.

I agree with you about the picture issue with the wind mitigation inspections. However, it isn’t going to change until the whole program is scrapped anyway, so why waste time and energy fighting it when the time and energy could be used in other areas?

As to code issues, take SWR for example, according to the code and the manufacturer, it is applied on top of the felt underlayment, yet, the insurance companies are not giving you a credit for an item that is code compliant. As this causes a monetary loss which could translate to “damages” financially, wouldn’t the insurance company be guilty of enforcing a building code or more precisely, not enforcing the code, which in any event, is out of the scope of an insurance license?

I’ll be out all day as I have two inspections to do…:cool:

39

Thanks John—point well taken ! Have a great saturday:)

40

Some don’t. :frowning: