Michael’s are what all of use should be using, information provided in the instruction/installation manuals that are supposed to be with the equipment, yeah right just like the set for the WH.
So, Michael did you ever get the name of your office screen-shot program?
Linda,
The vent downstream in theory and reality stops the air loss from the drainpipe due to the weir of the p-trap as far as cabinet leakage you are right a tech will be required to evaluate repair probably mastic sealant.
Come down here where from May-Oct attics range from 100°F-150[FONT=Verdana]°F with RH hovering around 50%-99.999% and you’ll see every unit inspected is sweating like a $20.00 hooker on Harry Hines Blvd.[/FONT]
Ohh, I get out enough, it’s just that our condensation lines simply do not sweat. Must be an outside weather thing.
I’ll tell you what, send me a flight ticket to Texas and show me a thing or two! I’ll be waiting by my mailbox for the ticket. Ohh, by the way, my son says that he’s like to tag along also. So, two tickets will work.
Thanks Barry. I’m looking forward to tagging along with you.
David,
Step away from the mailbox.
Too late in the season to get the full monty.
Start looking for your ticket in April next year.
It would almost be worth it if you’re willing to take all of the attics for a summer.
Michael,
Thanks for the links and other info I have gleaned from you over the years.
If your looking for a great screen capture program without purchasing a single bit of software, it’s right on your computer, if you’re using Windows.
The first step is to create the windows that you want to capture and leave it right up on the screen.
Just to the right of your keyboard, you should see three groups of keys. The lower set of keys usually is a group of arrow keys. Above that is usually a set of some six keys that are labeled “Insert,” “Home,” “Page Up,” etc. Above that should be three keys that have rather odd labels - like Pause/Break and ScrLk. One of those keys should be labeled PrtScrn/SysRq. Pressing Alt and PrintScreen at the same time places an image of the frontmost window on the clipboard. Pressing PrintScreen by itself places an image of the entire desktop on the clipboard.
If you press PrtScrn/SysRq, nothing will appear to have happened. However, your computer just took a snapshot of its screen and stored that picture on its clipboard, much as it stores information that you cut and paste.
Open MS-Paint. (From Start/Run, issue the command “mspaint”.) Create a new empty image, and use Edit/Paste to bring in the screenshot you just took. (If the screenshot is smaller than the default Paint canvas, you will end up with white areas. Start over: create a new empty image, change its dimensions to 1x1, and Paste again. The canvas will grow for the Paste, but it doesn’t shrink.)
Use MS-Paint to Save As, using PNG as the file format (it is superior to all the rest).
*]You’re done…Now go get your screen capture in the file you just saved it in.
Dont see anything wrong with this setup in the picture. Done this way all the time here in Texas. Common to see primary condensate draining to bathroom sink. - yes
Texas SOP requires the primary drain line to be insulated. If not it has to be written up as in need of repair. Different parts of the country different requirements.
I am seeing more and more of these. Around here they are all connecting to the drain at a vanity drain above the sink trap. I generally call it out and have several times had builders state that it isn’t needed due to the fact that the sink drain is trapped.
My biggest concern has always been can sewer gas get into the air stream of the furnace. With a wet trap or continous flow; as some would say it would not concern me.
Shows how much they know. Must be the same ones that don’t want the duct joints without gaps and efficiency losses- morons!!
From a 1996 study, *Air Of Importance, *by Alternative Energy Corp:
“In the last several years, building scientists across the country have been quantifying the contribution made by air distribution systems to building efficiency loss in site -built homes. Estimates vary, but the average duct system appears to reduce overall system efficiency by 20 to 40 percent. This efficiency loss can have a multiplying effect with air-flow sensitive, compressor-based space conditioning systems such as** air conditioners and heat pumps**. Meanwhile, air distribution systems in new manufactured homes have received very little attention. This study is a step forward in trying to better understand air distribution in manufactured homes and their affect on overall system performance.”
And the quality appears to still be going downhill in spec built mass housing!
Most people don’t realize that with bad duct installations, the air handler actually increases indoor/outdoor air exchange while the fan is running. Different areas of the building become unneccessarily or more pressurized than necessary and push conditioned (heated, humified or cooled, dehumidified) air out the unsealed wall/ceilings,etc while other areas become similarly depressurized to suck in outdoor air (or crawlspace/garage air) to increase HVAC operating costs. Sealing both ducts and the building envelope will substantially decrease these costs!!
I agree, and if the house is not used long enough for the sink drain trap to dry out, the one in the attic would have as well. So there is not a code that requires the trap at the air handler, just that the line has a trap before the sewer?
I have run into the situation where the sink drain is very close to the unit and some people complain about hearing the rushing air through the sink drain.
I don’t know how sewer gas got into this trap conversation, or why I was red boxed.
Before more posts happen, these traps are typically ‘dry’ in the heating season/Non-AC season. Since they are there to prevent cold air constantly blowing through them, an efficiency problem yes, but was told to prevent condensation problem. So They are let to dry in the NON-AC season.
Have them check the manufacturer’s instructions; they usually require the trap to be within 12" of the condensate drain connection at the evaporator coil housing, similar to that shown in the installation instructions I posted above.
If they persist, recommend your client obtain a statement on their letterhead that the installation is complaint with the manufacturer’s instructions, and that the manufacturer’s warranty remains in effect.
If they provide it, fax to to the manufacturer “for verification” :twisted:.
It is enough to me to point it out and as Michael said, per typical manufacturer instructions. Most probably won’t follow through. But at least I have made tehm aware of the possible concern.
As I stated before my biggest concern is no sewer gas into the air stream of the furnace I did not say that was my only concern. I see all kinds of crazy connections most of them wrong.
I look at both ends of this condensate line yes most MFG recommend a trap at the outlet of the coil which is very proper. But to me the most important item is where it drains. I see a lot of lines in attic installs that connect to a vent stack and have had HVAC contractors tell me that it is alright because they placed a P-trap on the outlet of the coil.
To me if there is a trap or not at the coil or if the vent is on the wrong side of the trap or there is no vent is still not as big a concern as where the condensate is being discharged. I want no possibility of a cross connect between the air stream and the sewer under any circumstances heat or cool season. Period
I can give another scenario of a bad install that I see quite frequently on slab foundations. Spec houses
Upflow furnace setting on top of a local return box with the return grill opening into a hall. The furnace is mounted in a hall closet with C-air provided from the attic.
The condensate drains into an indirect stub-out within the return air box that has a P-trap installed below the slab. The P-trap in the slab goes dry in the heating season and the blower for the furnaces sucks sewer gas into the air stream.
The only cure for this is to extend the P-trap inlet to above the return box within the furnace closet which is not really a cure because when the trap goes dry sewer gas is allowed into the furnace closet but with the indirect drain in the furnace closet at least water or a product such as Baby oil can be added to the trap to seal it in the heating season.
I will say this again again again and again it is not as important if there is a trap at the outlet of the A-coil as compared to where the drain is discharging.
