Well they shot me down on all counts. they have adopted a life safety code that says every habitable room in the house must have two forms of egrees, So I’m installing a egrees window in the gable end wall.
Anybody want to buy a new 60x52 double hung/double mulled window with 6/6 grids and low e glass?
The funny thing is that these folks can go into their house go to bed without a single egrees window but when they want to use their new bonus room they have to have it. The house next door just got completely renovated, new roof, new windows, new siding, kitchen, flooring ETC, but guess what! because they did not exceed 50% of the buildings value in renovations they are exempt from bringing it up to code.
This is by the way a crock of you know what. The guy that bought it is a contractor, it was foreclosed on, I’m sure he pulled the permit as the homeowner doing the renovations at a low balled price to avoid the codes and still had his crew do the job.
So my clients have to have an egress window to watch TV and the house next door does not have a single egress window in it, not even the bedrooms. Go figure!!
I presume the previous poster is a design professional. The building codes are quite clear on what must be done in new construction, and what must be done in repairs, renovations, rehabilitations, and reconstruction. One must do a lot more than cosmetic work in order to exceed the maximums of the code. Also, even if all windows are being replaced, the code states in “AJ102.4 **Replacement windows. **Regardless of the category of work, when an entire existing window, including frame, sash and glazed portion is replaced, the replacement window shall comply with the requirements of…” the energy code section of the code. No mention is made of a requirement to meet the egress window requirements in a renovation. Had the neighbor constructed an addition to the house, then any room in the addition would have been required to conform fully to the code.
The municipal supplement to the building code should be read for any exemtions having to do with existing buildings or any requirement that it applies to new construction only. It is always possible that a code official “blew the call”.
I am a fireman and a home inspector, the rules generally are that you need 2 forms of egress from any living area. Bedrooms and living area’s need a window ( correct dimensions ) and a door. The second story living area needs a window due to the fact,that if fire is at or around the stairs how would you get out without a window. Remember most city inspectors when called to inspect something you open yourself up to everything for them to inspect.
My mothers house has a walk out basement with a basement level garage.
The garage has 2 single car bay doors, 1 side entrance door & 1 entrance door to the basement.
The basement has the staircase, a rear entrance and 2, 12’x5’ windows. One on each side of the rear door.
She rents rooms out in her home. She lives in the basement. She had a tenant who called the fire dept. to inspect her home… (Tennant was upset that my mother gave her eviction papers.)
Long story short, the firemen told the tenant to put the batteries back in the smoke alarms that she removed, (They found them in her room on her desk) and after checking the entire house saw nothing wrong.
*Note: In the basement they said that the back door & the stairs were my mothers egresses. They said that the door leading to the garage is not an acceptable egress. Just thought I would throw that in the pot here. I just thought it was strange that the stairs (with a door at the top of the stairs) was OK but, the door to the garage was not… Either way you would need to go through two doors to exit the house. *
A required exit path of travel may not be through a garage.
"R311.4.1Exit door required. Not less than one required exit door conforming to this section shall be provided for each dwelling unit. The required exit door shall provide for direct access to the exterior without requiring travel through a garage." (2003 IRC)
If your mother’s house were to be built under current codes, a second means of egresss (Emergency Escape And Rescue Opening) would also be required in the basement, in the sleeping room.
Yes, when I finished her basement for her I built the bed room at the opposite end of the house of the garage at the rear of the house. One of the two large windows is her bed room legal egress. The basement living space is over 1800 sq ft. The upstairs is a ranch home with 5 bedrooms and 2 full baths and a laundry. Two bed rooms & one bath are above the garage. The basement is only one bedroom, full bath, kitchen & laundry.
Michael Boyett has got the right call on this one.
The IRC section R310 has stated since 2000 that all ‘sleeping rooms’ require ‘emergency escape and rescue openings’ and a bonus room above a garage with no other way out ought to be considered a ‘sleeping room’ and should should have an emergency escape and rescue opening…
[quote=prussel]
Thanks Jeff and Mike.
Mike your probably right but I like to understand why my plans can be approved but not acceptable after the fact. In most cases these battles are rarely won but I do like to professionally challenge building inspectors and debate the pros’s and con’s of the subject. I think they like the challenge as well when it’s done in a professional manner.
[quote]
While the original plans examiner may hve missed this one, building codes are pretty much uniform on such issues and require the builder to build to code no matter what was ‘approved’ or ‘disapproved’ or ‘ignored’.
Ultimately it is not the building code official that must comply with the Code, but the builder and the owner.
[quote=homebild While the original plans examiner may hve missed this one, building codes are pretty much uniform on such issues and require the builder to build to code no matter what was ‘approved’ or ‘disapproved’ or ‘ignored’.
Ultimately it is not the building code official that must comply with the Code, but the builder and the owner.[/quote]
Homebuild, I have to agree with you on this one.
I wish you could post with your real name though. I do not like to communicate with slang and fictional references.
I am faced with Building to Code on a daily basis, and the type of work I do is usually in the $6 million plus and designed by Engineers and Architects that are paid to design and make sure that it is up to Code Nationally and Locally.
The Specifications always have this clause included that says Contractor is liable to adhere to Local Codes and Regulations.
They are the Designers and the high paid White Collars, why should the Contractor be liable to make sure things are up to Code?? This is another one of those clauses or disclaimers that try to put the blame on someone else. Who can the Builder blame it on?
Everything gets brushed on to the shoulders of the Builder in this scenario, and between the Local Jurisdiction and the Engineers, they wipe their A#ss with silk cloth.
In too many ways have I had change orders in the Commercial World to correct deficient designs that do not uphold Code Compliance, that it is scary.
What happens when a Project gets built and the Superintendant is 25 years old or it is a sidewalk Inspector that is controlling the Quality Control?
It must be or turn out as a disaster.
To get back to the egress Code.
Commen Sense and NFPA 101 Chapter 24 which equals the same.
One thing I did not mention is that most of NH goes by a second means of egress in every bedroom, this particular town adopted the rule to have two means of egrees in every habitable room. So my problem is they excepted my plans but did not inform me that the town had amended the code. This by the way is after the question whether or not I would put the footing below the frost line!
“Egress” and “Emergency Escape and Rescue Openings” are not the same thing and both have different meanings under the International Residential Codes.
Bedrooms and sleeping rooms normally require 1 “egress” opening and 1 “emergency escape and rescue opening”.
This should not be confused with a bedroom being required to have 2 means of ‘egress’ from them.
“Egress” by definition allows exit to another part of the structure.
“Emergency Escape and Rescue Openings” must open to the outside of the structure.
Seems to me you are confused with Code semantics, and perhaps rightly so.
But under the IRC which is employed by most jurisdictions in New Hampshire, bedrooms do NOT require 2 means of egress, but rather 1 means of ‘egress’ and 1 means of ‘emergency escape and recue opening’.
You are correct, sorry about my wording, that was not my intent.
You seem to have missed my point that this town has adopted an amendment to the IRC and IBC, which is fine but they should do their job and reject the plans I gave them that clearly showed the windows and sizes I was using.
Another thing you have to realize is in 2002 NH adopted the 2000IBC then late last year added the 2000 IRC and on top of that any town can add any amendment they want to the codes, as a builder I have know idea what the town will require as special amendment’s. That’s why I supply them with a set of prints detailing the project.
I did a job in one town where the building inspector made me put three 1/2 dabb’s of black jack under each shingle in the starter courses.
Peter, I think he was pulling your leg and flashing his badge.
You should have asked him to see the Amendments to the Code.
It is not even a requirement of the Manufacturer, unless you are in a high wind area and have a high pitched roof, where all the tabs would get a dab of black jack.
Next time, show him the Manufacturers Application Guide Instructions and ask him to to show you the Amendments of the same Code, and see what happens.
I bet you he will say DA, DA, DA, well, they are not available at this time. ha. ha.
I forgot to mention that if you use a starter course strip upside down like most, if you cut the tabs off and then place the stick tabs downward, there is your dab a do ah that the Code Enforcement will need. Then there is no more argument. ha. ha.
Marcel, did all that and no good, he wanted the black jack because he felt we were close enough to the ocean that a potential hurricane could hit us. That’s no BS either.
I spoke at the Senate hearings in NH this year regarding registering contractors and I told them that part of a contractors problems is not knowing how to do a good job but the hoops we have to jump through to meet unexpected amendments in the codes.
My suggestion was to have a board where contractors can complain about asinine rule that building inspectors make up for their individual town.
I agree with you and I also get upset with this Political B. S. where some of these towns and Cities hire these hole’ose and give them all this authority and think they have the bull by the horns and do as they well please in interpretation of the Code when they do not have a clue. Believe you me, I have come across these Code Interpretation Geeks many times and I do not let my logic loose of any of their reading intelligence of the black and white, for that is all they see and have no clue of anything else. The minute the Code applies to a scenario that is different, from, what written, the first thing they will do is relate it to the closest thing they can find. Hey, I have the badge on my belt. Ha. I tell them, you need to tell me who your superior is, because we have an issue here and is obvious we are not going to settle it.
I have defended a Contractor in Court before and can do it again, but would also defend a Client from a Contractor if the Contractor was wrong. This comes into play when you wear both hats I guess, ha. ha.
I know Codes as well as these guys and don’t forget that even if you did not know the Codes, if you were brought up as a Builder as I was which I think you may well be, we do not build to a lesser degree or close to meet Code anyways, so why worry about it.
This a point in time where we need to get involved maybe in participating in the Town or City Assessors Board Meetings to find out what the hell is going on.
Peter stay in touch.
Do you belong to the AGC? They might be able to help your situation.
So if things where not bad enough I found out that our legislators have passed yet another bill in NH to adopted the 2006 IRC in app. 60 days.
So we have had 3 code changes in 4 years each allowing any town to make an amendment as they see fit.
I just can’t keep up and yes I was a member of AGC but recently dropped them because I belong to too many orgs. and can’t read everything they have to offer.
Pete
Too bad you didn’t build that addition here in Mass (taxachusetts). Even though they’ve adopted the 2003 IRC they still are allowing “Emergency Escape and Rescue Openings” (double hung windows) to have a net clear opening of 3.3 sq. ft. providing at least one operable sash has the min. height and width.
homebild
Just so that we all aren’t “confused with Code semantics” and are on the same page as to correct definitions - doesn’t the IRC define Emergency Escape and Rescue Openings as “An operable window, door or similar device that provides for a means of escape and access for rescue in the event of an emergency” not *“Emergency Escape and Rescue Openings” must open to the outside of the structure" *as you stated, that statement sounds like the definition of “Means of Egress” of exit doors.
Just trying to help with some clarification.
Just as an FYI - as Peter stated the state of NH has adopted the 2000 ICC Codes including the IRC and IBC as their “State Building Code”
